2 Timothy 4:3 KJV -
Why would God need a hell?
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2 Timothy 4:3 KJV -
Mickiel
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Mickiel
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You have misjudged me again, I don't heap teachers to myself; I don't follow anyone, nor do I have any teachers in my life;
not since my mom passed. When she was alive, I learned a great deal from her.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
More thoughts on 'conditional immortality'.....
More thoughts on 'conditional immortality'.....
I suppose that might be commendable to some, but as I said,...any person or group can use any number of 'passages' to support their claims, and it just becomes a tiring dart game of who can hit the 'bullseye', a target that is ever changing and never stable, since everyone has their own 'aim' and 'target'. Its a constant "merry-go-round". This is why we are to come back to our own 'conscience' which is a mirror of the constitution of 'God'(within), whereby reason, logic, rightful discernment, consideration, inquisitive intelligence is summoned from the depth of our being, and allowed to speak for itself, as far as what is truly just or merciful.
What does hold are eternal truths, values, and principles. It is by these universal precepts that the cosmos is governed, and so the condition and destiny of souls. It still holds that the law of reaping and sowing (karma), metes out compensations and harvests that are wholly just (equitable), since one only reaps what he sows in 'proportion' to his actions. Therefore this warped concept of a soul being 'punished' endlessly(eternally) for a crime committed in 'time' (a finite amount of time, limited in degree and severity) is insane, as we've exposed elsewhere.
Furthermore, I've proposed that as long as a soul is capable of repentance, then divine love and wisdom must always keep the door of recovery and reformation open, since the soul's 'response-ability' to love still exists, whereby repentance may dawn, and one return to his true home. Love's eternal will must be recognized in the saving of the soul.
However,...while some passages support Universalism, there are other that support 'conditional immortality' as well, in that some souls apparently do 'perish'. Some souls actually die. Herein the 'second death' equates a 'dis-integration' of personhood, a termination of the person, a 'final' and 'permanent' DEATH of that individual unit of consciousness,...that person is NO MORE. Wiped out, expunged from existence. Such is the second death. Only what is truly valuable or eternal remains behind, that which is pure spirit, and that 'spirit' returns to Universal Spirit ('God). - there is much more here we could explore as to the metaphysics involved in personality dis-integration from other schools on the subject, but this will suffice.
In the 'conditional immortality' view, only those who choose life, are granted it, and a sharing in the divine nature (bestowal of immortality), while those who reject life, and have earned the full consequence of fully embraced iniquity, receive the natural consequence of such, which is DEATH. Hence, the celebrated pop-slogan branded by many these days, of John 3:16. This verse is the epitome of 'conditional immortality'. Note, its 'conditional' upon 'faith' and 'acceptance' of God's Son, who is Love personified. There is 'life' and/or 'death'.
More thoughts on 'conditional immortality'.....
I suppose that might be commendable to some, but as I said,...any person or group can use any number of 'passages' to support their claims, and it just becomes a tiring dart game of who can hit the 'bullseye', a target that is ever changing and never stable, since everyone has their own 'aim' and 'target'. Its a constant "merry-go-round". This is why we are to come back to our own 'conscience' which is a mirror of the constitution of 'God'(within), whereby reason, logic, rightful discernment, consideration, inquisitive intelligence is summoned from the depth of our being, and allowed to speak for itself, as far as what is truly just or merciful.
What does hold are eternal truths, values, and principles. It is by these universal precepts that the cosmos is governed, and so the condition and destiny of souls. It still holds that the law of reaping and sowing (karma), metes out compensations and harvests that are wholly just (equitable), since one only reaps what he sows in 'proportion' to his actions. Therefore this warped concept of a soul being 'punished' endlessly(eternally) for a crime committed in 'time' (a finite amount of time, limited in degree and severity) is insane, as we've exposed elsewhere.
Furthermore, I've proposed that as long as a soul is capable of repentance, then divine love and wisdom must always keep the door of recovery and reformation open, since the soul's 'response-ability' to love still exists, whereby repentance may dawn, and one return to his true home. Love's eternal will must be recognized in the saving of the soul.
However,...while some passages support Universalism, there are other that support 'conditional immortality' as well, in that some souls apparently do 'perish'. Some souls actually die. Herein the 'second death' equates a 'dis-integration' of personhood, a termination of the person, a 'final' and 'permanent' DEATH of that individual unit of consciousness,...that person is NO MORE. Wiped out, expunged from existence. Such is the second death. Only what is truly valuable or eternal remains behind, that which is pure spirit, and that 'spirit' returns to Universal Spirit ('God). - there is much more here we could explore as to the metaphysics involved in personality dis-integration from other schools on the subject, but this will suffice.
In the 'conditional immortality' view, only those who choose life, are granted it, and a sharing in the divine nature (bestowal of immortality), while those who reject life, and have earned the full consequence of fully embraced iniquity, receive the natural consequence of such, which is DEATH. Hence, the celebrated pop-slogan branded by many these days, of John 3:16. This verse is the epitome of 'conditional immortality'. Note, its 'conditional' upon 'faith' and 'acceptance' of God's Son, who is Love personified. There is 'life' and/or 'death'.
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Zeke
Well-known member
The speculative world of phenomenal pop-slogans, dueling ink stains mesmerizing the mind with spell bound creations/mirages, mental seeds that go forth and multiply after their own kind.
Mickiel
New member
I like using the bible to support my claims, to show where my thinking is coming from.
I just like doing it.
Instruction Concerning Offenses (Mt 18:7–14)
"Mt 18:7–11 (Mark 9:43–48). Jesus continued the previous discussion by talking about those who cause offenses. It was obvious such individuals were present in Jesus’ time, but the judgment of God (woe, twice, Matt. 18:7; eternal fire, v. 8; the fire of hell, v. 9; cf. 6:22) would fall on them because they were failing to deal with the basic cause of their sin. Jesus was not teaching self-mutilation, cutting off one’s hand or foot or gouging out one’s eye (cf. 5:29–30). Doing that would not remove the source of offense, which is the heart (cf. 15:18–19). Jesus was saying one must remove whatever offends. To keep from offending, radical changes are often necessary. The disciples were reminded of the value the Lord places on these little ones (mikrōn toutōn; cf. 18:6, 14). Children are important to God. It may be God has entrusted the care of little children to a specific group of His angelic beings (their angels) who are in constant touch with the heavenly Father (cf. Ps. 91:11; Acts 12:15). (Some Gr. mss. add the words of Matt. 18:11, “The Son of Man came to save what was lost,” perhaps inserted from Luke 19:10.)
Mt 18:12–14 (Luke 15:3–7). In order to demonstrate the importance God attaches to little children, the Lord gave the disciples an illustration. Suppose a man who owns 100 sheep suddenly discovers only 99 are present. Will he not leave them and search for the one until he finds it? In the same way God (your Father in heaven; cf. Matt. 18:10) is concerned about these little ones (cf. vv. 6, 10) and does not want to lose any of them. Great care must be exercised to avoid all offense." Barbieri, L. A., Jr. (1985). Matthew. In J. F. Walvoord & R. B. Zuck (Eds.), The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (Vol. 2, p. 62). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.
Jesus is God, the Son (2 Pe 2:1).
"Mt 18:22. Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times; but, Until seventy times seven—that is, so long as it shall be needed and sought: you are never to come to the point of refusing forgiveness sincerely asked. (See on Lu 17:3, 4)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 50). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
"Lk 1:76 the prophet of the Highest. See note on v. 32.
1:77 the remission of their sins. Forgiveness of sins is the heart of salvation. God saves sinner from separation from Him and from eternal hell only by atoning for and forgiving their sins. See notes on Rom. 4:6–8; 2 Cor. 5:19; Eph. 1:7; Heb. 9:22." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1513). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.
You are a false witness (Zech. 8:17).
Mickiel
New member
My witness is not for Christianity, its for sinners and unbelievers and those Christianity rejects. The message of salvation I see is for them.
You have nothing to offer (1 Tim. 6:3–5).
Mickiel
New member
I have nothing to offer Christianity, no. Christianity is gone, its path irreversible and nobody can change that. That stage of the church is pre determined deception, even they cannot change if they wanted to. The world needs to hear about the free coming Kingdom of God, the miracle Salvation God is giving to them, through Christ, the Savior of the world. John 4:42.
"Jn 4:42...He is not only a Messiah for the Jews, but also for us and the Gentiles; in Him the divided world again becomes one.
The work of Jesus in Samaria laid the foundation for the subsequent conversion of that people under the Apostles, Acts 8." Lange, J. P., & Schaff, P. (2008). A commentary on the Holy Scriptures: John (p. 166). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.
Mickiel
New member
Christianity is infected with a gospel of limited salvation, I announce the coming Kingdom of God as being welcome to all, not based on their acceptance or belief, but based on the very heart and will of God. In John 6:37 Jesus teaches that ALL the people the Father gave him will come to him, John 6:44 teaches they could not come unless God draws them, and John 17:2 teaches that the Father has given Christ ALL humans!
The Kingdom of God is coming for ALL of humanity, nobody will be left out. This is the good news for all the world that the angel announced to Mary before Christ birth.
The Kingdom of God is coming for ALL of humanity, nobody will be left out. This is the good news for all the world that the angel announced to Mary before Christ birth.
"Jn 6:37. All that (πᾶν ὃ). The neuter singular of the adjective and pronoun. All believers are regarded as one complete whole. Compare 17:24, according to the correct reading, “that which Thou hast given me.”" Vincent, M. R. (1887). Word studies in the New Testament (Vol. 2, p. 150). New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons.
"Jn 6:28–59
...Christ having told them that they must work for the meat he spoke of, must labour for it, they enquire what work they must do, and he answers them, v. 28, 29. 1...
Christ’s answer was plain enough (v. 29): This is the work of God that ye believe..." Henry, M. (1994). Matthew Henry’s commentary on the whole Bible: complete and unabridged in one volume (pp. 1951–1955). Peabody: Hendrickson.
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him [John 17:2].
"This is a startling statement. He has power over all flesh! He could make this universe and every individual in it bow to Him. He could bring us all into subjection to Him and make robots out of all of us. Although that is the last thing He would want to do, He has the power over all flesh...
...He has said that whosoever will may come. That is a legitimate offer to every person. You have no excuse to offer at all if you will not come to Him. It will be your condemnation that you turned down the offer that God has made to you." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (John 11-21) (electronic ed., Vol. 39, p. 122). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
Mickiel
New member
In John 6:51 Jesus again teaches that he gave himself , he died, " For the Life of the WORLD!" He died so that the whole world of humanity can live forever with God in his Kingdom. He did that for everybody, which is what the bible means by the world. All the sinners and unbelievers. This reveals the amazing heart of God, and it reveals the horrible heart of religion, because religion wants to stop God from saving everybody.
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world [John 6:48–51].
"He came down to this earth: “the Word was made flesh” (John 1:14). He is going to the Cross to lay that human life down there as a sacrifice to pay for your sins and my sins. Friend, when you partake of that, that is, when you accept that, you are saved. Someone may say, “Oh, that’s so vivid and so strong.” That’s what they said in that day, too." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (John 1-10) (electronic ed., Vol. 38, p. 110). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
Mickiel
New member
Again, yes again I am going to show a teaching from Christ that Christianity MUST ignore; they must! Because it reveals that unbelievers are saved! Something Christianity is against.
In John 12:47, again Jesus, the real teacher;" If anyone hears my teachings and just will not believe them or accept me, I JUDGE THEM NOT! ( you'd best believe that the Christians will judge them), for I came not to judge the world, but to SAVE THE WORLD!"
You can't tell me that unbelievers will not be given the Kingdom of God; I can read! I can see what Jesus just taught, and I KNOW its NOT what Christianity is teaching. Hey, God loves unbelievers too; and I kind of knew he did. I always suspected that Christianity was wrong about God.
In John 12:47, again Jesus, the real teacher;" If anyone hears my teachings and just will not believe them or accept me, I JUDGE THEM NOT! ( you'd best believe that the Christians will judge them), for I came not to judge the world, but to SAVE THE WORLD!"
You can't tell me that unbelievers will not be given the Kingdom of God; I can read! I can see what Jesus just taught, and I KNOW its NOT what Christianity is teaching. Hey, God loves unbelievers too; and I kind of knew he did. I always suspected that Christianity was wrong about God.
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