ECT Why the world has still not been evangelized

[Nick M]

What other parts of the NT don't you believe are for today?

Do you really think you are clever?

If you raise the dead, you can have my house.

Matthew 10

5These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

So, do you raise the dead and preach to Israel only? I thought so.

Take a seat.

 

[ZacharyB]

Sorry if misled you. During my time with our Lord I have served in an AOG assembly and a Baptist assembly. What you say is difficult to understand because here in the UK every AOG assembly is autonomous and therefore only the people the pastor serves in the assembly can "dismiss them" So "they" (the council of AOG) cannot get rid of any pastor. I now have an itinerant ministry but am based at an AOG assembly.

OK, Pete, art thou a pre-tribber?

 

[revpete]

OK, Pete, art thou a pre-tribber?

I used to be because I was taught it but now I don't know. In favour of pre trib it seems to make the most sense in as much as it keeps the prophetic harmony more so than amil or post mil. However, I do have questions because I see certain weaknesses in the pre trib position.

Pete

 

[revpete]

Do you really think you are clever?

If you raise the dead, you can have my house.

Matthew 10

5These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

So, do you raise the dead and preach to Israel only? I thought so.

Take a seat.

All I did was question your statement in post #9 that if anyone obeys Rom.10:9,10 then that is evidence that is evidence that they are not in Christ. That statement is utter rubbish! Your reply has nothing to do with my question.

Pete

 

[Nick M]

All I did was question your statement in post #9 that if anyone obeys Rom.10:9,10 then that is evidence that is evidence that they are not in Christ.

No, you asked what in the NT do I not think is for today.

 

[Totton Linnet]

God performed "special miracles" through Paul and yet, towards the end of his ministry, he was leaving his friends sick and suggesting wine for medicinal purposes.

Clearly SOMETHING changed.

Act 19:11-12 KJV And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: (12) So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

1Ti 5:23 KJV Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

2Ti 4:20 KJV Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.​

Why didn't Paul send them a handkerchief?

You cain't pick 2 needles out of the haystack to make a doctrine, Epaphraditus was sick too but God healed him...the whole weight of NT revelation is for healing.

When Christ was at the pool of Bethesda there was a whole crowd of sick folks but He healed only one...had the power left Him? no but in general those folk were not looking to be healed by Christ, they were waiting on something else.

And I believe in medicine [as in wine] all these things are of God.

What about when the doctor shakes his head? when man's science is at an end? when the medicine is fails?

Still in the bible is "I am the Lord who healeth thee" that word was revolutionary to the Gentiles, they did not have a God like the One Paul preached.

How can we know that Paul preached healing as part of his gospel?

Because in the assemblies he set up were healers and workers of miracles, the same as at Jerusalem.

The salvation the Jews understood was FULL salvation for the WHOLE man...that is the gospel. "He bore our sins...He carried our sicknesses."

 

[Lazy afternoon]

God performed "special miracles" through Paul and yet, towards the end of his ministry, he was leaving his friends sick and suggesting wine for medicinal purposes.

Clearly SOMETHING changed.

Act 19:11-12 KJV And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: (12) So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

1Ti 5:23 KJV Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

2Ti 4:20 KJV Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.​

Why didn't Paul send them a handkerchief?

Nothing changed.

You have no scripture to say so.

What you have to do is seek out what the truth of it is.

LA

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Nothing changed.

You have no scripture to say so.

What you have to do is seek out what the truth of it is.

LA

What kind of "prediction" will you make up for him?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

These are the predictions of LA:

1) I'll be beheaded.
2) Another poster will be burned up
2) And, another will be shot full of arrows.

 

[revpete]

No, you asked what in the NT do I not think is for today.

Yes, because you stated that anyone who obeys those verses in Rom. 10:9,10 has no evidence of being in Christ. So my next logical question would be: what else in the NT do you believe does not apply today in terms of supplying evidence of being in Christ?
I mean, how can confessing Christ with the mouth and believing in the heart that God raised Him from the dead be evidence of not being in Christ when Christ Himself said that he who confesses Me before men I will confess him before My Father? Again Jesus taught in parable that man understands with the heart relating to belief.
To me your statement in post #9 is nonsense and so gave rise to my question.

Pete

 

[revpete]

Yes, because you stated that anyone who obeys those verses in Rom. 10:9,10 has no evidence of being in Christ. So my next logical question would be: what else in the NT do you believe does not apply today in terms of supplying evidence of being in Christ?

Pete

 

[revpete]

Sorry for double post.

 

[ZacharyB]

I used to be (pre-trib) because I was taught it but now I don't know ...
I see certain weaknesses in the pre trib position.

Okay, you talked me into it ...
Later, I'll post a shorter thread with refs only (no full quotes) ...
and you will no longer have any doubts about the falseness of pre-trib.

 

[Right Divider]

You cain't pick 2 needles out of the haystack to make a doctrine, Epaphraditus was sick too but God healed him...the whole weight of NT revelation is for healing.

When Christ was at the pool of Bethesda there was a whole crowd of sick folks but He healed only one...had the power left Him? no but in general those folk were not looking to be healed by Christ, they were waiting on something else.

And I believe in medicine [as in wine] all these things are of God.

What about when the doctor shakes his head? when man's science is at an end? when the medicine is fails?

Still in the bible is "I am the Lord who healeth thee" that word was revolutionary to the Gentiles, they did not have a God like the One Paul preached.

How can we know that Paul preached healing as part of his gospel?

Because in the assemblies he set up were healers and workers of miracles, the same as at Jerusalem.

The salvation the Jews understood was FULL salvation for the WHOLE man...that is the gospel. "He bore our sins...He carried our sicknesses."

TL, it is you that "picks" what you want to see. I was not cherry-picking verses, but showing a clear distinction between Paul's early and later ministry. The fact that you reject this clarity is your problem.

When the kingdom DOES come, everyone will get healed. Just like Peter and the gang did in Acts 5.

Act 5:16 KJV There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
​

Why isn't everyone getting healed today? Because Israel fell and the kingdom did NOT come. But it will when Christ returns.

 

[chrysostom]

how do you evangelize those who have already died?

I guess that it would be the same way that you pray to dead people for help.

huh?

so how do you evangelize those who have already died?

 

[revpete]

Okay, you talked me into it ...
Later, I'll post a shorter thread with refs only (no full quotes) ...
and you will no longer have any doubts about the falseness of pre-trib.

What's your take on it then Zac?

Pete

 

[Right Divider]

so how do you evangelize those who have already died?

You don't.

And you don't pray to dead people either.

 

[chrysostom]

You don't.

And you don't pray to dead people either.

thank you for an answer

so they never had a chance at salvation?

 

[Right Divider]

thank you for an answer

so they never had a chance at salvation?

Everyone always gets a "chance at salvation".

 

[chrysostom]

Everyone always gets a "chance at salvation".

how?