Why is income inequality a bad thing?

nikolai_42

Well-known member
The problem is not the existence of a rich minority per se . This has always been the case .
The problem is that in America, we have a tiny handful of superrich people who have collectively possess a staggering amount of money but are hoarding it , and an ever growing number of poor or almost poor people .
The notion that wealthy people will automatically create jobs and be beneficial for a country is a myth . Theoretically this could be the case and sometimes it has been , but the rich are now getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, and more and more of the middle class are being helplessly dragged down into poverty .

Anecdotally, I would say you are dead wrong. Look at the rich from a century or two ago - the Robber Barons, for example. Their wealth valued at today's standards was actually at or above what the likes of Bill Gates and Warren Buffet made. And there are more substantially wealthy people today than there were. In addition, poverty was far more widespread than it is today. Certainly the poorest of the poor were greater in ratio then than they are today (and no one to help them, often). There are certainly nations that have serious poverty problems - but I would point out that these nations are not capitalistic and are victims of rampant corruption.

Today, we have a richer poor class than we certainly had 150 years ago. More people are wealthy and more of what we consider "poor" today in the West are not nearly as bad off as the poor of an earlier day.

I would add that the healthcare issue is only a major issue because we have had significant advances in medical understanding. If we hadn't, who would be complaining about the healthcare system? It's envy, plain and simple. That's what the socialist bigwigs play off of.


Being appalled and outraged by this terrible situation in America does not make you a "socialist, Marxist and communist ". Contrary to popular belief, liberals are not opposed to wealth per se or the existence of rich people . They do not want to "soak the rich " (whatever that means ) , and they do not want to turn America into another Soviet Union , where the vast majority were poor and the government controls the entire economy, and only the top members of the communist party live well .
All they want is to make it possible for people to escape poverty ,keep the middle class form becoming poor, make sure there is a secure safety net for those in need , people can get a good education with out having to struggle to pay for it , find good, secure jobs and retire without starving . is this too much to ask for ? And they also want everyone to have access to good medical care . Yes, health care is a right, not a privilege .
But the GOP has been preventing this from happening for decades, because they are greedy bastards and in the pay of the greediest rich people . And Trump is only going to make things worse if he is not stopped soon .

There is a big difference between the Government trying to lift people out of poverty (it can't) and the government releasing the shackles on money (i.e. high taxes for anyone) to let non-profit and even private philanthropic operation do what it does best. If government increased taxes on Gates and Buffett, they wouldn't be able to give away so much money as they do. And they only made THEIR money because of a system that fosters competition and growth.
 

Rusha

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Over here (UK) most of us already have the greatest respect for Former President Obama.
Mostly, humans don't know what they've got...'til it's gone. :)

Indeed ... at this point, I am most likely not the only US citizen who views GW Bush in a much more favorable light.
 

Rusha

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You all have the "greatest respect" for Obummer? :rotfl:

:think: There is such a thing as history, Patrick. Sometime in the not so distant future, kids and grandkids will say to their parents and grandparents "I just read in history about Trump and his alliance with the Russians. You didn't vote for this guy, did you?" Thankfully, I will be on the moral side of that conversation.
 

patrick jane

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:think: There is such a thing as history, Patrick. Sometime in the not so distant future, kids and grandkids will say to their parents and grandparents "I just read in history about Trump and his alliance with the Russians. You didn't vote for this guy, did you?" Thankfully, I will be on the moral side of that conversation.
When will you libtards get it through your thick skulls? There is NO connection between Trump and Russia, affirmed by Crooked Comey. That's why the investigation has shifted to obstruction, another load of crap.
 

patrick jane

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Resorting to name-calling is no substitute for a valid argument, Patrick.
The left is rewriting the "history books" - I bet they don'rt even teach what was taught when I was in school about American History. To say that history will show Trump/Russia collusion is totally preposterous !!!
 

Rusha

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The left is rewriting the "history books" -

Left this ... Left that. More "I know you are but what am I" tactics.

I bet they don'rt even teach what was taught when I was in school about American History. To say that history will show Trump/Russia collusion is totally preposterous !!!

So you claim ... we will see. Trump is unraveling as we speak. BTW, all of this is self-inflicted ... starting from asking the Russians to hack into Clinton's emails.
 

eider

Well-known member
ummmm - we had all that stuff before bammy was prez

How wonderful!
So nobody in America ever went without instant and top quality surgery, nursing and medical aid free of charge. That's great!

I just wonder why so many films show US ambulance crews checking on injured/sick person's insurance at point of pick up?

So President Obama never needed to ensure the provision of full medical care to the poor of the US...... Oh well.
 

eider

Well-known member
which films are those?

Oh dosey! There's you, leading me off to goodness only knows where, pretending interest in my favourite films, and never telling me the twoof about the lack of full US healthcare for the poor before Obamacare really made a difference.

And now certain well-to-do rich folks seem to want to scrap it. There's l;oads of articles about it all on jolly old google. I picked one at random to show you.


The brutal truth about America's healthcare | The Independent
www.independent.co.uk/.../the-brutal-truth-about-americarsquos-healthcare-1772580.html

14 Aug 2009 ... In America, the offer of free healthcare is so rare, that news of the magical ... earth
, there are an estimated 50 million with no health insurance at all. ... But recently,
the US started requiring citizens returning home from Mexico ...
 

The Horn

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Nikolai–42 , you make some good points here, but the problem is that America is getting closer and closer to a return to the bad old days of the Robber Barons in the 19th century .
And in many isolated rural areas in America, particularly in the south , there are an appalling number of genuinely poor people who are living in what amounts to third world conditions , and they are not getting decent food at all . Many of these malnourished people are children .
The urban poor in America aren't starving by any means, but they're too poor to afford more nutritious food, and so many of them rely on crappy fast food and are getting more and more obese .
 

patrick jane

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Oh dosey! There's you, leading me off to goodness only knows where, pretending interest in my favourite films, and never telling me the twoof about the lack of full US healthcare for the poor before Obamacare really made a difference.

And now certain well-to-do rich folks seem to want to scrap it. There's l;oads of articles about it all on jolly old google. I picked one at random to show you.


The brutal truth about America's healthcare | The Independent
www.independent.co.uk/.../the-brutal-truth-about-americarsquos-healthcare-1772580.html

14 Aug 2009 ... In America, the offer of free healthcare is so rare, that news of the magical ... earth
, there are an estimated 50 million with no health insurance at all. ... But recently,
the US started requiring citizens returning home from Mexico ...
Fake News
 

ClimateSanity

New member
Nikolai–42 , you make some good points here, but the problem is that America is getting closer and closer to a return to the bad old days of the Robber Barons in the 19th century .
And in many isolated rural areas in America, particularly in the south , there are an appalling number of genuinely poor people who are living in what amounts to third world conditions , and they are not getting decent food at all . Many of these malnourished people are children .
The urban poor in America aren't starving by any means, but they're too poor to afford more nutritious food, and so many of them rely on crappy fast food and are getting more and more obese .
And the robber barons are in tight relationships with your dem buddies....
 

Angel4Truth

New member
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As one of those conservative Christians, I would point out a few things (apologies if this has already been touched on since I haven't read the entire thread yet):

1. The passage you quote has a context that needs to be borne in mind. What happens immediately after that description you quote from Acts 4? Acts 5 has the story of Ananias and Sapphira who were killed (by God) for their deceitful behavior. The critical verse here is :

Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Acts 5:4

The church did, in no way, enforce the (re)distribution of wealth, but they were found giving all they had only under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. In other words, this was a community of believers - not an economic system in which everyone was taking part. The point is twofold :

i) Participation in this was voluntary. This is comparable (though maybe not an absolutely direct comparison) to charitable organizations in the capitalistic economy. The church was modelling that in its ideal operation. People give, others distribute, no one makes money (thus, non-profit).
ii) To extend that to an economic model for the whole world (as history has shown amply just in the last century or so) is catastrophic as it results in the worst tyranny. Fallen men operating a system meant for regenerate men (I speak as a Christian to other Christians) is just man's way of trying to foist his own idea of utopia upon the rest of the world. It doesn't work. There is no system of itself that is perfect, but when one assumes man is basically good (as socialism/communism does) and proceeds apace - the safeguards that a system which assumes man is basically self-seeking and bad (at heart) includes are done away with and fallen men are given free reign to impose their own will on everyone else. Communism as an ideal (isolated from its Marxist atheistic moorings) is good. Man is not.

The thing that scripture shows from early on is that God establishes the idea of private property. Thou shalt not steal pretty clearly sets that mandate. And as a civil fundamental (how many Communist rulers ever gave all they had for the cause and benefit of their fellow man?) it is foundational and absolutely necessary to prevent chaos - simply because man is selfish.

2. Jesus Himself never endorsed such a thing but made it clear that there would ALWAYS be inequality, and so to try and make into temporal reality that which is only ever shown to be realized after a spiritual transformation (i.e. in saved individuals) is to deny that which Jesus said :

For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
Mark 14:7

In context, a woman had spent a huge amount of money on perfume to anoint Jesus' feet with. It was rather extravagant (in a day where the poor were VERY poor) and that was Jesus' response to the disiciples' complaint that the money was wasted when it might be given to the poor. Thinking again of the Acts 4 model, Jesus should have agreed with this - but not only did she not give the money to the disciples, she didn't give it to the poor! She exercised her freedom to do what she wanted to do with what was hers. And John's gospel tells us that it was really Judas Iscariot who complained (John 12:4-5)! Not much has changed. The ones who cry the loudest (in high places, at least) about inequality and giving to the poor are often the ones who have hidden agendas.

3. Finally, I note that this has been attempted in some way in the early 20th century. It was called the social gospel and brought social injustice to the forefront as a primary motivation to preaching the gospel. Problem is, the gospel got all tangled up in physical prosperity and temporal motivation dominated what was supposed to be spiritual (God wants you not to be poor became God wants you to be rich...God wants you to live a life of spiritual victory became God wants you to live a life of temporal success) and now that has become the prosperity gospel on steroids. When men are promised trials and poverty and all that the world can throw at them and the gospel still wins out, those who are saved are not trapped by the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh or the pride of life. The social gospel obscured that and we are at the point now where it has become (in some circles) ALL about what you want. In other circles, the gospel has all but shriveled up and social causes have become the main (only) motivation. And those are often the ones promoting some sort of Christian Socialism. And again...I refer you back to my point 1.

Way to confuse them with facts. :thumb:

I will add this:

2 Corinthians 9:7 Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Its nice though to see them learning some scripture, even though they dont yet understand what its saying.
 
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