Why I'm not Calvinist

[beloved57]

Exactly. So when B57 talks about me teaching that one has to do something to be saved he has entirely the wrong end of the stick. He would do well to check with open theists what they believe before he goes off spouting falsehoods.

It's plausible enough. I would say faith is our response to God when we trust him. But it would in no way be possible to have such faith if it were not for Christ because saving faith is by definition faith in Christ and the gift of faith is faith in Christ the gift. That is why we say that faith comes from God. It isn't that God somehow makes us believe, but it is that he gives us something to believe in. Faith is not of course mere words, the mere recital of a prayer, but it is a trust in God and a life choice to follow Jesus as Lord.

B57 is only one of many who keep accusing us of salvation by works because they make out that our believing is a work that supposedly merits salvation. It's an outright lie because all we are doing is receiving what was offered as a gift. At some point we have to receive that gift, regardless of whether we are Calvinists or Open Theists. The Calvinists want to say that God forces salvation upon us such that we have no involvement at all and that faith comes as a result of that forcing. All this does, is to deny the nature of Christ's salvation as gift. Because no gift is forced upon anyone.

You are guilty of teaching salvation by works, by what a person does !

 

[beloved57]

No I don't believe that. I already told you. So stop telling lies about open theism.

If you don't believe that, and you believe that Christ died for everyone without exception, and you don't believe that everyone without exception shall be saved by what Christ did, then why not ? What is left to be done and who must do it ?

 

[Desert Reign]

If you don't believe that, and you believe that Christ died for everyone without exception, and you don't believe that everyone without exception shall be saved by what Christ did, then why not ? What is left to be done and who must do it ?

I refer you to the answers I previously gave.

 

[beloved57]

I refer you to the answers I previously gave.

And likewise ! You believe in salvation by works, by what you did !

 

[intojoy]

Faith in Christ is how one is saved. Faith isn't earned. Faith comes from God, but it can be resisted. Isn't it more plausible to understand that God offers the gift of faith to even they who resist it? If you say God doesn't even offer some the gift of faith, then that person NEVER had a chance. Many will tell Jesus all the many WORKS they did in his name someday, and he will profess unto them "I never knew you." Why? Because they trusted in their works. Faith isn't works.

Well it could appear that some had no chance.

The cross is not the only saving instrumentality in the work of salvation since faith was required. The question is how does human responsibility harmonize with divine sovereignty? How can man believe without God enabling him to do so?

If there was none that sought Him "not even one" then the entire human race was alienated from God and completely lost.

The cross was the means of rendering all men savable. Therefore all of humanity are savable. But because man left to himself cannot chose God, "no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him" God did the work of election which is completely by grace without human merit at all. Election in my observation magnifies grace.

What of those who don't believe?

They were passed over by the Potter who can choose as He in His infinite wisdom so desires.

The proper attitude towards the Creator is that salvation is the outworking of the love of God and the grace of God. The improper attitude concerning the non elect is to insinuate that God unfairly chose some and some He did not choose. God has the full right to not save any but He intervened and from out of the mass of humanity decided to elect some to salvation and glorification and this should produce humility.

It produces pride in the strict Calvinist because Calvin taught that the lost were irretrievably lost and predestined to condemnation - a false deduction, all were lost, all were judged and already condemned, already heading for hell.

 

[Desert Reign]

The basis of electing was done by God alone and has nothing to do with foreknowledge of a sinner's ability to believe, none believed not even one.

If predestination to glorification were determined upon the merit of our choice then God owed it to us to elect us since we take the first step in receiving the gift of salvation.

There is no 'basis of election'. Jesus died for all. No distinctions, no basis, no qualifications, no prejudices of race, colour, religion, etc.
This is why Calvinists hide behind 'we cannot know the basis of election because of the secret counsel of God'. They want there to be a basis because they want to think that somehow they themselves are better in some way than others. They want to feel special because they are elect and others are not. But they cannot think of any rational basis for them being chosen and not someone else. So they invent that we cannot know what that basis is.
There is no basis. Got it? God foreordained that salvation was to be given through faith in Christ, whether for Jew or Gentile. Christ was given to the whole world, not just to the Jews. All of us who have faith in Christ are elect because we are in Christ, the elect one.

 

[intojoy]

There is no 'basis of election'. Jesus died for all. No distinctions, no basis, no qualifications, no prejudices of race, colour, religion, etc.
This is why Calvinists hide behind 'we cannot know the basis of election because of the secret counsel of God'. They want there to be a basis because they want to think that somehow they themselves are better in some way than others. They want to feel special because they are elect and others are not. But they cannot think of any rational basis for them being chosen and not someone else. So they invent that we cannot know what that basis is.
There is no basis. Got it? God foreordained that salvation was to be given through faith in Christ, whether for Jew or Gentile. Christ was given to the whole world, not just to the Jews. All of us who have faith in Christ are elect because we are in Christ, the elect one.

You're assuming that the cross is the only saving instrumentality and the cross is not the only saving instrumentality, Faith is required to appropriate the work of the cross.

The cross without faith doesn't save anyone. But are all redeemable by the blood of Christ's cross? Yes of course all are savable, Christ paid for the sins of all humanity. But because faith is required, men left to themselves will never choose to come to God just like Adam didn't choose to go to God. And Adam knew the love and kindness of God first hand yet once he died spiritually his capacity to seek God disappeared. God chose to redeem Adam and the plan of the Messiah was put into motion.

If God does not elect the open theist then when an open theist comes to faith in God, God owes it to the open theist to save the open theist based on the act of believing.

 

[intojoy]

Missing the point bud but never mind.

Make you feel like a man?
Come at me bro!

 

[intojoy]

So, Calvinism is another one of your problems huh?

Grozmarobefail

 

[Desert Reign]

You're assuming that the cross is the only saving instrumentality and the cross is not the only saving instrumentality, Faith is required to appropriate the work of the cross.

Thanks for telling me what I am assuming. I didn't know until you told me. (Of course my belief is not self-contradictory...)

If God does not elect the open theist then when an open theist comes to faith in God, God owes it to the open theist to save the open theist based on the act of believing.

Nope. It's more like I said previously (hint, hint!) But I am glad that you disagree with me politely.

 

[Truster]

Matthew 12:34-37. I've said no evil thing to you, but you judge me with your words.

Your words condemn you and so does your lack of true spiritual understanding.