I trust the word of God in the KJV and have no reason to delve into questions about the inerrancy of the Bible from those who question the inerrancy of the word of God translated into the KJV.
Why I support the KJV Bible
- Thread starter marke
- Start date
- Nobody but you cares what "you see"! Least of all, people who have spent their entire careers studying biblical texts. And, no Marke, that is not an endorsement of any of their conclusions or any of their work. It's just me pointing out YOUR ignorance and YOUR inability to distinguish opinion from fact.
- Reading part of one or two books does not constitute "extensive study".
- I have NOT been "led to believe the older manuscripts are "more trustworthy." On the contrary, I specifically stated that they are likely older and more complete because they were not being used and that I prefer what is commonly referred to as the "majority texts" which is a giant collection of mostly scraps of manuscripts that are in comparatively terrible condition precisely because they were being actually used.
The difference between you and me, beyond the fact that I actually read your posts before I respond to them is that I understand the difference between an opinion and a fact. You and I seem to agree which texts are superior but our agreement isn't proof that we are correct and honest people can come to a different conclusion and base their decisions about which bible to read on that opinion and they can do so and still be reading God's word because even with all the various things that you and I might not particularly like about the NIV and other similar translations, they don't amount to a hill of beans in comparison with the weight of the whole of God's word. Ten of millions of people have gotten saved in churches that preach from the NIV! I happen to be one of them! You are straining at gnats while swallowing a camel.
Now, that's it! I'm done with this discussion and I'm done with allow you to waste my time.
Clete
You don't have a clue what I have studied over the 50 years I have been saved and you do show a lack of maturity for slandering me the way you do.
If the older manuscripts had not been corrupted they would not have become so different from the majority of manuscripts and from each other.
People have a problem with me because I prefer the KJV over other versions, but there is no logical reason for anyone to have a problem with me about that.
We know.
In other words...
"I'm right and you can't convince me otherwise."
How about answering the question I asked, marke?
Are you aware that in the case of Paul's Epistles at lest, Paul expected, even commanded, his letters to the churches and groups he wrote to to be copied and shared with other believers in the vicinity of where he sent the letters?
You realize that the people who copied those letters in order to share them with their brothers and sisters in Christ were not nearly as strict with their copying methods as those who later on were actually dedicated to the task of doing so to preserve them, right?
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As believers, we have a RESPONSIBILITY to know what is right, and to teach that, not to just believe whatever we want because it makes us feel good, or because we're too stubborn to consider any other opinion than our own, or because we refuse to be swayed by the rational arguments of others due to our own a priori beliefs.
Ideas (which include beliefs) have consequences, marke. Yours are no different. Your beliefs have consequences.
I have a problem with you because you're lazy and unwilling to allow sound reason to persuade your mind, not because you have a preference for the KJV. That's just the latest example of the lazy manner in which you operate your mind. It isn't a preference that I have a problem with at all! If you want to read the KJV then have at it! I literally do not care. It's the idea that the KJV is dramatically superior to every other translation and that it is THE "preserved word of God" and that other translations are "corrupt" that I think is flat out indefensible stupidity.
The fact of the matter is that you don't have any idea whether those last several verses of the Gospel of Mark were in the originals or not. YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT! You believe they were and might even have good evidence to believe it but that isn't the same thing as proof. At the end of the day it comes down to which arguments one finds persuasive and that is going to be determined by a whole list of factors that have nothing to do (directly) with the extant manuscripts and cannot be used as a means to determine whether someone is or isn't being intellectually honest, whether they be a lay person who simply reads a particular translation or if they were the chief translator of that particular translation. In short, it is not an exact science and there's plenty of wiggle room that allows for differences of opinion about what constitutes "superior" manuscripts and what doesn't. And in no case is there any modern translation of the bible that is translated from perfect manuscripts nor would any of them appreciably alter even one single doctrine, regardless of which manuscripts were used, and thus God's word has been preserved, regardless of which translation you happen to be reading from.
Now, I keep getting sucked in here but this is, I hope, truly my last word on the subject. That fact is that I simply do not care anything about a word you say because the only things you've ever established is the fact of your own unwillingness to substantively engage on nearly any topic and a total unwillingness to allow sound reason to persuade your mind. In short, you're a lazy waste of my time.
You are far too judgmental of others you disagree with. I know the last 12 verses of Mark belong in the Bible.
Right Divider
Body part
How do you "know" this?
Has nothing to do with disagreement. I get along with people I disagree with all the time. It's lazy fools who pretend to be something they aren't and pretend to think and pretend to make decisions on real information when all they really do is pick the side that tickles their ears on a particular issue and then go fishing for information that supports it.
You're not just lazy, you're an idiot. You KNOW no such thing. You believe it and you haven't any idea what the difference is.
Now answer the second half of that question:
You realize that the people who copied those letters in order to share them with their brothers and sisters in Christ were not nearly as strict with their copying methods as those who later on were actually dedicated to the task of doing so to preserve them, right?
By faith.
Why do you think I haven't spent thousands of hours studying Bible translations issues?
No, I don't assume that at all.
I didn't ask if you "assumed" it, marke. Read the question again if you have to, then try again to answer.
No I do not believe early Christians handled the word of God sloppily and have no reason to assume they did.
Why?
Right Divider
Body part
Because it's what he believes!
Because, I know people who have spent thousands of hours studying various things. And I mean for real studying them, not just picking up several books that they know in advance defend a position that they already hold and watching YouTube videos that do the same. I know what they sound like when they talk about their chosen field of study. They actually sound like the experts that they are, not some hack that read one book that convinced them of something. In addition to that, they are eager to talk about the things they've learned. There is no need to practically beg them to engage the subject nor is it like pulling teeth to get them to share even a single piece of evidence that backs up their beliefs on the subject and they NEVER point you to some obscure book that no one has ever heard of before so as to keep from having to say three whole sentences in response to a direct question the way you do.
If you had spent thousands of hours studying bible translations, you would not be here saying the things you're saying. One percent of that amount of time is more than it would take for you to figure out that KJV onlyism (or any flavor of it) is simply ridiculous nonsense. In short, I can tell that you've not spent thousands of hours studying the subject because you don't know what you're talking about.