Why I Don't Believe in Calvinism or Predestination

[heir]

Total Depravity
Unconditional Election (where my small issues are)
Limited Atonement
Irresistable Grace
Perseverance of the Saints

What's not to understand, really? It's the gospel_
I would love for you show otherwise, honestly. I see a lot of flack against Reformed theology, ironically from those divergent from Catholicism altogether. Makes no sense to me.

I wasn't asking for TULIP, but the gospel of YOUR salvation. Show me!

 

[Cons&Spires]

I wasn't asking for TULIP, but the gospel of YOUR salvation. Show me!

Besides my moderation of Unconditional Election, my gospel is TULIP.

I don't know how that was lost in translation..

 

[heir]

Besides my moderation of Unconditional Election, my gospel is TULIP.

I don't know how that was lost in translation..

TULIP didn't/doesn't save you. What is the good news by which you are saved?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Why I Don't Believe in Calvinism or Predestination

Breaking news! Who knew? :AMR:

Robert in a nutshell:

I, Robert Pate, believe all Calvinists are lost, hate religion, deny the infallibility and inerrancy of Scripture, deny the Bible is a book to live by, am within my right to question the infallibility of the book of James, Acts, and any other book that disagrees with my views, deny the notion of eternal punishment in Hell in favor of psychopannychia (soul-sleep), deny Adam's sin bears any connection to my sinful nature from birth, deny my faith came by God alone and not by any single thing related to my own abilities to come to said faith. Moreover I refuse to attend any visible vestige of the Lord's Bride for corporate worship, placing myself under its ordained leadership, nor give myself access to the ordinary means of grace by Word and Sacrament.

AMR

 

[Cons&Spires]

TULIP didn't/doesn't save you. What is the good news by which you are saved?

:smokie: This is ridiculous.

Do you understand the doctrine of TULIP?

 

[heir]

Besides my moderation of Unconditional Election, my gospel is TULIP.

I don't know how that was lost in translation..

TULIP didn't/doesn't save you. What is the good news by which you are saved?

 

[Cons&Spires]

TULIP didn't/doesn't save you. What is the good news by which you are saved?

TULIP is an explanation of God's relationship to man, and how we are judged.

You're talking about 'good news' as if salvation comes without anything, including belief. Which is unorthodox, God does not leave that option. Sorry to break it to you.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Robert Pate is Outside the Camp

Robert Pate is Outside the Camp

Calvinist cannot be corrected by scripture. They have other writings that supports their position that they believe is the final authority.

I am not a Calvinist because I believe in scripture alone, they don't.

The Calvinist answer is to discredit the Bible by adding words, deleting words and changing the meaning of words.

Odd that you lay claim to the purity of the Bible, given your personal views about the bible.

Why do the religious always run to the book of James?

There is no Gospel in the book of James. I suppose it is because James was a Judaizer that had trouble with Paul's Gospel much like Peter, Galatians 2:11,12. The religious have the same problem as Peter and James.

I am sure that Peter and James eventually came to embrace Paul's Gospel at a later date. The book of James is very Jewish. There is nothing in the book of James about the redemptive work of Christ or the resurrection. It is a very law based book.

James had faith, but I am not sure what James had faith in, he doesn't say. If it were Christ and his Gospel he doesn't bring that out in his writtings.

The "Historical Gospel" calls all things into question, even the Bible itself.

Why should anyone expect anything different, given:

I am not in a box. I do not belong to a church nor am I affiliated with any sort of religious organization.

Pate is also double-minded. Here he has no hesitancy to declare who is a Christian and who is not. Yes, even the box of Scripture is too small for Robert for if Scripture disagrees with him, Pate will just wave it off as irrelevant. :AMR:

My posts stand for themselves. They are biblical and truthful.

I don't consider Calvinist to be Christians. Why don't you get saved and then we can discuss spiritual things if that is what you want to do?

Untill then you remain a natural man void of the Spirit of Christ.

But, when he tries his usual schtick at more moderated sites, we get this from Pate:

I don't know who is a Christian and who isn't.

In other words, Pate is not above being a liar to suit his purposes.

Pate's behavior is probably because he is holding a book in his hands that he does not see as Holy Writ and full of inaccuracies and discrepancies.

See Robert's mentor, Brinsmead, and his latest nonsense here:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...es-Us-to-God&p=4835494&viewfull=1#post4835494

The bible is not a perfect book. It was written by men.

The sole purpose of the bible is to be a witness to the work and person of Jesus Christ. If you use it for any other purpose than that you have misused it.

It was never intended to be a book to live by.

No, the bible is not a perfect work. This does not take away from it but rather enhances it. None of the men except for Christ were perfect. What makes you think that imperfect men can write a perfect book.

The bible does what it was intended to do, it reveals Christ and his gospel.

Pate confirms these low views of Scripture:

I retract nothing.

Then continues with more non-Scriptural views:

...

No one deserves to go to hell.

We are ALL sinners without works. No one can become a sinner by what they do, they are born into sin, Psalm 51:5.

It is not our fault that we are sinners. If you want to blame someone blame Adam. He is the one that brought sin upon on us, Romans 5:12...

Then there are some real howlers:

The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit.

God has a moral obligation to offer salvation to all because all are sinners without works. It is not my fault that I am a sinner, its Adam's fault. Why should I go to hell for something that Adam brought upon me.

You are assuming that God knows everything that is happening on the earth.

Truth of the matter is that God is very absent from what is happening on the earth.

Does God know who will believe on his Son Jesus Christ?

I don't think that he does. To give life for the sole purpose of destroying it makes God unjust and unmerciful.

One of the main reasons Pate does not understand Scripture...he refuses to attend church, even declaring its members as being in a "whore church":

Organized religion is anti-Gospel, anti-Christ, and is under the law.

I know I attended a baptist church for years, until I discovered the Gospel.

There is no Gospel being taught today. It is all about religion, which you love.

I wouldn't attend an organized church if you paid me.

Christ church is an invisible, spiritual church that cannot be seen, but can be heard. It is talking to you now.

Yet, religion is something Pate affirms…

Christianity is a faith religion. We are called to believe things that cannot be believed by unbelievers. They are things of the Spirit that unbelievers do not have access to, 1 Corinthians 2:14. We spend a lot of time on the forum trying to convince these people that are void of the Spirit things of the Spirit.

Given Pate's confusion about the Scriptures, is there any wonder he says:

God can limit himself.

God does not see what is going on, on the earth.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

Nothing will be revealed until Christ returns and then everything will be revealed.

Finally, since Pate denies imperfect men could write a perfect book, and the book (the Bible) was never intended to be a book to live by, he has little concerns about the consequences of his behavior. Pate has an "out" for everything anyway:

I have trouble with eternal punishment. I believe that the soul of the person that has rejected Christ will be destroyed in hell, but not eternally punished.

I am hoping, but don't know for sure, that in the judgment there will be another chance to accept Christ as your savior.

What ever it is, and whatever God decides, it will be right. He is the just judge of all things.

I believe that the soul will be destroyed in hell. I see little to no value in the doctrine of ECT. Why would God make someone suffer in hell for all eternity? The destruction of the soul would be eternal death and would be very painful.

Then there is Robert's psychopannychia (soul sleep):

If a persons spirit is already in heaven then why would there be a resurrection?

There is a lot of controversy concerning this.

The way I see it is, the whole person goes into the ground and the whole person is resurrected.

The Christian does not really die. He falls asleep until the resurrection.

Then there is this:

And you and you alone are responsible for your salvation.

At least Robert is bold enough to declare in public and unequivocally exactly what the anti-Calvinist really believes...and prays thusly here.

When a person willfully refuses to submit themselves to the local authority of a church, denies the essentials of the Bible, and lies when it suits him, why would anyone ever consider taking him seriously? Pate knows this, which is why he refuses to stand still long enough to defend his bizarre views. Rather he just runs along and starts yet another thread. A good portion have been deleted, but Robert is not deterred. Sigh.

AMR

 

[heir]

TULIP didn't/doesn't save you. What is the good news by which you are saved?

*crickets*

 

[Cons&Spires]

^This is a big part of the reason I considered Reformed doctrine in the first place. Everything else seems to be filled with absurdity.

 

[heir]

^This is a big part of the reason I considered Reformed doctrine in the first place.

Why can't you answer such a simple question as, what is the gospel of your salvation? Surely, if you're saved, you know the gospel by which you are saved! What is it?

 

[Cons&Spires]

Why can't you answer such a simple question as, what is the gospel of your salvation? Surely, if you're saved, you know the gospel by which you are saved! What is it?

TULIP

:rotfl:

Are you drunk?

 

[Robert Pate]

That doesn't answer my question: "I guess my question to you is how come God told Jeremiah for instance he was chosen from the womb to be a prophet to the nations if He is no respecter of persons? Is there a way to reconcile both of those statements?"

How come God chose an unproven infant to be his prophet if He is no respecter of persons? Or is the infant unproven to God? Did He design some special instead?


So then in your interpretation, those people who did not hear of Christ because they lived in 6th century Japan are damned to hell?

God did chose prophets, patriarches, Israel, apostles, for a purpose.

The purpose was to make known to the world the good news of his Son Jesus Christ.

THERE IS NO ELECTION WITHOUT A PURPOSE.

God is no respector of persons WITHOUT A PURPOSE, Acts 10:34.

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert, you really need to grow up. I gave you verses that show that we are predestinated. Why you see Calvinism when you see that term, I don't know. I certainly don't. It has nothing to do with the Calvinistic hijacking of the term, but a sound, biblical teaching on our adoption and inheritance based upon God's foreknowledge.

You apparently do not understand the Gospel.

If you did you would know that God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ. There is no individual election.

The only one that has been predestinated is Jesus Christ. He was predestinated to be the new Adam and the savior of the whole world.

The only way that anyone can be saved is by faith in Jesus Christ.

We are adopted into Jesus Christ by faith alone.

God does NOTHING outside of Jesus Christ. No predestinating, No choosing, If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

 

[RevTestament]

God did cho[o]se prophets, patriarches, Israel, apostles, for a purpose.

The purpose was to make known to the world the good news of his Son Jesus Christ.

You are avoiding the meat of the question. I know He has prophets to teach the Word, but for instance, why were all the prophets basically from Israel if as you note God shows no partiality Acts 10:34?

Is it because as He said in Jer 1:4-5 He really did know Jeremiah before He formed him in the belly, and Jer had proven Himself somehow? Like He knew Christ before his body was formed in Mary?

 

[Robert Pate]

You are avoiding the meat of the question. I know He has prophets to teach the Word, but for instance, why were all the prophets basically from Israel if as you note God shows no partiality Acts 10:34?

Is it because as He said in Jer 1:4-5 He really did know Jeremiah before He formed him in the belly, and Jer had proven Himself somehow? Like He knew Christ before his body was formed in Mary?

Your problem is not with me.

Your problem is with Peter who said, "God is no respector of persons" Acts 10:34.

All of the prophets were Jews because God chose the Jewish people to be the ones that would bring the savior of the world, into the world. They were choosen for that purpose.

Jeremiah was chosen for a purpose. His purpose was to be a prophet.

 

[RevTestament]

Your problem is not with me.

Your problem is with Peter who said, "God is no respector of persons" Acts 10:34.

I have no "problem" either with you nor Peter. I am just pointing out something. I can see you will not believe what God actually said. It is too much for the traditional viewpoint to accept. They just choose to believe that God is talking about his "foreknowledge" or something of that sort. The scriptures say many are called but few are chosen.

All of the prophets were Jews because God chose the Jewish people to be the ones that would bring the savior of the world, into the world. They were choosen for that purpose.

You are still avoiding why just them if God is no respecter of persons and is not partial.

The scriptures say Heavenly Father is the Father of spirits - not the Father of bodies. Our bodies are created, but He "blows" our spirits into them, like Adam. When we understand this, we can be like Melchizedek - without father, mother or beginning of days, but like unto the Son of man.
Anyway just thought I'd offer this, because then the gospel makes sense. If one looks at the gospel from the viewpoint that our spirits aren't created, but existed before this world, then it makes sense that some are born chosen or foreordained to do God's work, without God showing partiality. Then Ecclesiastes makes sense when it says that the body will return to dust from which it came, but our spirits return to God. Eccl 12:7
Be well.

 

[heir]

TULIP is an explanation of God's relationship to man, and how we are judged.

You're talking about 'good news' as if salvation comes without anything, including belief. Which is unorthodox, God does not leave that option. Sorry to break it to you.

What is the gospel of your salvation? Surely, you know what it is. You claim to be a "Christian".

 

[heir]

TULIP

:rotfl:

Are you drunk?

Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation, so why can't you tell anyone here the gospel by which you are saved? It's a simple question with a simple answer (for the saved).

Show me!

 

[heir]

You apparently do not understand the Gospel.

Which "the gospel" are you referring to?