Why Evolution is real science - let's settle this "debate"!

[The Barbarian]

In a nutshell, evolution not only leaves God out,

As does plumbing. The only difference is that you're not scared of plumbing.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Definitions

Evolution:
Gradual change over time

The evolution debate is about whether plant, fish, birds, and mammals all have a common ancestor but became so different from each other due to accumulated changes over time.

Is life defying entropy by creating more and more complexity in every generation due to random mutations?
Or is every generation experiencing a loss of genetic information due to entropy in the form of mutations?

 

[Jose Fly]

The evolution debate is about whether plant, fish, birds, and mammals all have a common ancestor but became so different from each other due to accumulated changes over time.

More accurately, this "debate" only exists with fundamentalist Christians.

Is life defying entropy by creating more and more complexity in every generation due to random mutations?

Here's a tip.....localized decreases in entropy are not only common, but pretty much necessary. You should understand thermodynamics before trying to cite it in an argument.

Or is every generation experiencing a loss of genetic information due to entropy in the form of mutations?

Impossible to say, since creationists have not come up with a means to measure "genetic information".

 

[Lon]

So wait.....are you actually agreeing that natural processes such as mutations can generate very complex biochemical pathways, biological structures, and life strategies?

So same question....are you in agreement then that natural processes are fully capable of generating very complex biochemical pathways, biological structures, and life strategies?

Close, although I'm not sure 'more' complex. DNA is already complex. I'd liken this to a biological A-I on the DNA scale? Realize, my science is good but not extensive so my concern is always the overall of such discussion. :e4e:

 

[Jose Fly]

Close, although I'm not sure 'more' complex.

Why not?

DNA is already complex. I'd liken this to a biological A-I on the DNA scale? Realize, my science is good but not extensive so my concern is always the overall of such discussion. :e4e:

Understood.

 

[6days]

So wait.....are you actually agreeing that natural processes such as mutations can generate very complex biochemical pathways, biological structures, and life strategies?

Mutations degrade the pre-existing genetic information.

 

[Greg Jennings]

:idunno:

I wouldn't word it like Brain did, but it's not overtly incorrect. However, like a typical Darwinist, he forgot the therefore.

He went on a rant and it looks like he's relying on an unspoken narrative to create the illusion of a point.

He didn't make a point, so there's nothing to debate. It's just a disconnected opinion.

I would disagree, but I thank you for the conversation instead of emoticons

 

[Jose Fly]

Mutations degrade the pre-existing genetic information.

Then where did the "genetic information" that allows the plasmodium parasite to cause malaria come from?

 

[Stripe]

I would disagree, but I thank you for the conversation instead of emoticons

:thumb:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Here's a tip.....localized decreases in entropy are not only common, but pretty much necessary. You should understand thermodynamics before trying to cite it in an argument.

Buy a clue or buy a dictionary

entropy
1. thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
2. lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.​

 

[Jose Fly]

Buy a clue or buy a dictionary

entropy
1. thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
2. lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.​

So if everything always heads towards disorder, how does chemistry work? How can more ordered and complex molecules form from less ordered and less complex elements?

 

[genuineoriginal]

So if everything always heads towards disorder, how does chemistry work? How can more ordered and complex molecules form from less ordered and less complex elements?

Such as?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Buy a clue or buy a dictionary

entropy
1. thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
2. lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.​

gradual decline into disorder

(Biblical)

(Not saying everything declines into disorder)

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[Jose Fly]

Such as?

Are you not familiar with chemistry? I'll give a simple example....a water molecule, made via the bonding of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, is in a lower state of disorder than two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom that are free and unbonded.

How can that be if everything always tends towards greater disorder?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Are you not familiar with chemistry? I'll give a simple example....a water molecule, made via the bonding of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, is in a lower state of disorder than two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom that are free and unbonded.

How can that be if everything always tends towards greater disorder?

How To Make Water from Hydrogen and Oxygen
In theory, it's extremely easy to make water from hydrogen gas and oxygen gas. Simply mix the two gases together, add a spark or sufficient heat to provide the activation energy to start the reaction, and presto!


Instant water. Merely mixing the two gases together at room temperature won't do anything. Energy must be supplied to break the covalent bonds that hold H2 and O2 molecules together. When the chemical bonds reform to make water, additional energy is released, which propagates the reaction. The net reaction is highly exothermic.​

Try making water without additional energy to start the reaction.

 

[Wick Stick]

IMPORTANT:
The purpose here is solely to talk about science - not about faith, philosophy, theology or ethics or anything else unrelated.

I think you're in the wrong place.

This is under the Religion heading.

 

[Jose Fly]

Try making water without additional energy to start the reaction.

Exactly! As long as there's an input of energy, localized decreases in entropy can occur. So the answer to your question: "Is life defying entropy by creating more and more complexity in every generation due to random mutations?"...

...is "no" (it's also a straw man, as no one is saying life becomes more complex with every generation).

 

[Stripe]

Exactly! As long as there's an input of energy, localized decreases in entropy can occur.

We've been over this numerous times.

If you think evolution involves a decrease in entropy, explain the process by which this happens.

Where does the energy come from?
How is it converted into genetic information?

Remember not to use evolution as the explanation.

So the answer to your question: "Is life defying entropy by creating more and more complexity in every generation due to random mutations?"....is "no" (it's also a straw man, as no one is saying life becomes more complex with every generation).

Darwinism requires the progression from simple to complex. It's no straw man at all.

 

[Jose Fly]

If you think evolution involves a decrease in entropy, explain the process by which this happens.

By standard evolutionary mechanisms, as illustrated by the paper I linked to earlier that described the observed transition from single-celled organisms to multicellular organisms.

Where does the energy come from?

Lol! You don't know where the earth's energy comes from? Here's a hint...it's that big yellow ball in the sky.

How is it converted into genetic information?

Mutation.

Remember not to use evolution as the explanation.

Lol....don't cite evolutionary mechanisms to explain how evolution occurs. Riiiiiiiiiight. :chuckle:

Darwinism requires the progression from simple to complex. It's no straw man at all.

Not with every generation. Duh.

 

[Stripe]

Don't cite evolutionary mechanisms to explain how evolution occurs.

Exactly.

It's called circular reasoning.

You uphold the progression from slime to people by means of random mutations and natural selection. The challenge to this from entropy requires you to explain the mechanism that converts energy from the sun into genetic information. Reasserting your assumption is circular reasoning.

The problem is that Darwinsm relies on randomness, which can never produce anything but noise.

Not with every generation.

And yet, evolution requires upward progression of complexity.