Why Do We Believe Paul?

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Lilstu

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I know Paul's letters have been included in the Bible, but why do we believe what he wrote?

A man goes walking along a dessert road at midday and claims that Jesus appeared and spoke to him. Could this have been a sun stroke hallucination? How do we know if this was a real event or not?
Do we have 2 or three witnesses?

Then this man proceeds to rail against key elements of Jesus' religious practice....the Torah, circumcision, the Sabbath, the Festivals, and Jesus' Gospel of the establishment of the Messianic Kingdom on earth. Should we be suspicious of a man who replaces the practices of the Hebrew Scriptures with a new religion?

What do you think?
 
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Hawkins

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If you remove the Pauline epistles from the Bible, then no one understands how the Law and covenants work. His letters are theologically important and crucial in explaining the New Covenant theologically.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Lilstu said:
I know Paul's letters have been included in the Bible, but why do we believe what he wrote?

A man goes walking along a dessert road at midday and claims that Jesus appeared and spoke to him. Could this have been a sun stroke hallucination? How do we know if this was a real event or not?
Do we have 2 or three witnesses?

Then this man proceeds to rail against key elements of Jesus' religious practice....the Torah, circumcision, the Sabbath, the Festivals, and Jesus' Gospel of the establishment of the Messianic Kingdom on earth. Should we be suspicious of a man who replaces the practices of the Hebrew Scriptures with a new religion?

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Most Christians that accept Paul still don't believe him.
 
L

Lilstu

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Hawkins said:
If you remove the Pauline epistles from the Bible, then no one understands how the Law and covenants work. His letters are theologically important and crucial in explaining the New Covenant theologically.
Click to expand...

His letters are only important if you wish to follow Pauline theology. The Jews have gotten along without Paul very nicely.
 
Prizebeatz1

Prizebeatz1

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Lilstu said:
I know Paul's letters have been included in the Bible, but why do we believe what he wrote?

A man goes walking along a dessert road at midday and claims that Jesus appeared and spoke to him. Could this have been a sun stroke hallucination? How do we know if this was a real event or not?
Do we have 2 or three witnesses?

Then this man proceeds to rail against key elements of Jesus' religious practice....the Torah, circumcision, the Sabbath, the Festivals, and Jesus' Gospel of the establishment of the Messianic Kingdom on earth. Should we be suspicious of a man who replaces the practices of the Hebrew Scriptures with a new religion?

What do you think?
Click to expand...

I think Paul's message was a twist on Jesus' message. Paul emphasized that Jesus died for our sins. Paul was a Jew and sacrifice was important to them. Maybe Paul did have an experience but his message did not fully coincide with Jesus'. Jesus never really said he died for our sins. The closest thing he said was the he died as a ransom for many. That doesn't translate that he died for our sins. Even if he did say that it was not a big part of his message. Somehow Paul seemed to magnify and glorify it as if it were an essential ingredient. Try reading the 4 Gospels by themselves and tell me if you get the message that Jesus died for our sins. It is barely a blip on the radar. Like most people Paul didn't understand the story of Jesus is a metaphor for the soul. This interpretation has been lost and distorted in favor of something more digestible and we have the literal translation of Jesus as it is today.

The Church decided to place the letters of Paul right after the Gospels to influence people into remembering what Paul thought was important. This is a disservice to humanity because it displaced the the interpretation that we are one with God because of the soul. That is the real Good News which the Gospels have been trying to tell us for centuries but hardly no one really understands it. What we have instead is the literal interpretations posing like it is the one and only. There is more than one interpretation, some more accurate than others. The church did something very dangerous by suppressing anything other their own interpretation. This is an example of the collective personality's desire for power, control and for profit.

The church gets to control what others think and then make themselves look like the good guys because they have the one and only true interpretation (supposedly). Hardly no one questions it for fear of making the church wrong. We give them our money and they tell us the soul is part of us but we are not a part of it. This discourages people away from the soul and away from God. Most don't even know this to be a problem. The effects have been unnecessary and untold bloodshed on humanity which continues until this day. It needs to stop.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Banned
Lilstu said:
I know Paul's letters have been included in the Bible, but why do we believe what he wrote?

A man goes walking along a dessert road at midday and claims that Jesus appeared and spoke to him. Could this have been a sun stroke hallucination? How do we know if this was a real event or not?
Do we have 2 or three witnesses?

Then this man proceeds to rail against key elements of Jesus' religious practice....the Torah, circumcision, the Sabbath, the Festivals, and Jesus' Gospel of the establishment of the Messianic Kingdom on earth. Should we be suspicious of a man who replaces the practices of the Hebrew Scriptures with a new religion?

What do you think?
Click to expand...
I think you're an insane blasphemer
 
H

Hawkins

Active member
Lilstu said:
His letters are only important if you wish to follow Pauline theology. The Jews have gotten along without Paul very nicely.
Click to expand...

No. Without his letters basically we don't have a theory about what the New Covenant is.

The 4 gospels are the 4 accounts of witnessing about the deeds of Jesus Christ. Acts is about the deeds of the Apostles after Jesus' ascension. Hebrew is arguably from Paul or written with Paul's consent. Other letters are more like echoing what Paul has said.
 
L

Lilstu

New member
Prizebeatz1 said:
I think Paul's message was a twist on Jesus' message. Paul emphasized that Jesus died for our sins. Paul was a Jew and sacrifice was important to them. Maybe Paul did have an experience but his message did not fully coincide with Jesus'. Jesus never really said he died for our sins. The closest thing he said was the he died as a ransom for many. That doesn't translate that he died for our sins. Even if he did say that it was not a big part of his message. Somehow Paul seemed to magnify and glorify it as if it were an essential ingredient. Try reading the 4 Gospels by themselves and tell me if you get the message that Jesus died for our sins. It is barely a blip on the radar. Like most people Paul didn't understand the story of Jesus is a metaphor for the soul. This interpretation has been lost and distorted in favor of something more digestible and we have the literal translation of Jesus as it is today.

The Church decided to place the letters of Paul right after the Gospels to influence people into remembering what Paul thought was important. This is a disservice to humanity because it displaced the the interpretation that we are one with God because of the soul. That is the real Good News which the Gospels have been trying to tell us for centuries but hardly no one really understands it. What we have instead is the literal interpretations posing like it is the one and only. There is more than one interpretation, some more accurate than others. The church did something very dangerous by suppressing anything other their own interpretation. This is an example of the collective personality's desire for power, control and for profit.

The church gets to control what others think and then make themselves look like the good guys because they have the one and only true interpretation (supposedly). Hardly no one questions it for fear of making the church wrong. We give them our money and they tell us the soul is part of us but we are not a part of it. This discourages people away from the soul and away from God. Most don't even know this to be a problem. The effects have been unnecessary and untold bloodshed on humanity which continues until this day. It needs to stop.
Click to expand...

You have some interesting points....however ...how can we "square" Paul's views on the Law, sabbath, Gospel, holidays, circumcision with Jesus?
 
L

Lilstu

New member
Hawkins said:
No. Without his letters basically we don't have a theory about what the New Covenant is.
Click to expand...

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Has this been fulfilled?
 
L

Lilstu

New member
Nick M said:
How do you figure? Let's ignore the content difference for a moment and talk about the author claiming he never received revelation directly from the Lord Jesus Christ. Doesn't that automatically eliminate Paul from being the author?
Click to expand...

YES! Paul claimed he received the gospel directly from Jesus.
Excellent observation.
 
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