Why Believe in a god?

[6days]

Well, if that's so easy, provide us with an explanation about what or who caused the universe to exist?

Not a what, but a who. It would have to be a omniscient, omnipotent being.
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Eom.1:20

 

[Tyrathca]

Not a what, but a who. It would have to be a omniscient, omnipotent being.

Why omniscient or omnipotent?

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[Prizebeatz1]

Why Believe in a god?

Because it doesn't appear to be true.
The question then arises, what is your experience representative of? Is it experiencing an external stimulus or is it all (quite literally) all in your head? An experience brought about by your neurology rather than your theology.

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The experience means we are one with God because of the soul. It is beyond neurology and theology.


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[Tyrathca]

The experience means we are one with God because of the soul.

That you believe this was already obvious but you haven't given an explanation for why. You experienced something and have told us your interpretation of what you experienced, but you have given no reason to believe your interpretation is reliable. People are generally quite easily mistaken regarding their observations, be it the malleability of eye witness testimony to illusions to other phenomena (eg ghosts, aliens, demons attacking people). What did you experience? (Please refrain from your interpretation of what you experienced first. I.e I felt a sharp pain in my back rather than I felt a ghost pierce me with an invisible blade)

Furthermore - what is the soul? I honestly have never quite understood what the soul is meant to be/do.

It is beyond neurology and theology.

How can you tell? (Serious question)

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[Prizebeatz1]

Why Believe in a god?

That you believe this was already obvious but you haven't given an explanation for why. You experienced something and have told us your interpretation of what you experienced, but you have given no reason to believe your interpretation is reliable. People are generally quite easily mistaken regarding their observations, be it the malleability of eye witness testimony to illusions to other phenomena (eg ghosts, aliens, demons attacking people)

Furthermore - what is the soul? I honestly have never quite understood what the soul is meant to be/do.
How can you tell? (Serious question)

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All great questions that demand we find out the truth for ourselves. I do not want people to believe anything I say. I only ask they are willing to listen and understand and they can judge for themselves using their own discernment. The soul has no definition. Man does not define the soul. Rather the soul defines man. It may be helpful to know some basics however.

The soul is infinite, eternal and unconditional. It is the part of us that gives us value and self-worth. Without it we attempt to get self-worth through accomplishments, beliefs, controlling resources, putting other people down, etc. The effects are warfare, madness, violence which appear to be normal after a while. The story of Jesus is symbolic for this part of us. The purity, the miraculousness, the rejection and burial yet it still lives.


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[Tyrathca]

All great questions that demand we find out the truth for ourselves. I do not want people to believe anything I say. I only ask they are willing to listen and understand and they can judge for themselves using their own discernment.

And if they do so and come to a different conclusion to you?

The soul is infinite, eternal and unconditional.

infinite in what sense? Unconditional regarding what? These words are meaningless without context, they are adjectives so where is their noun? Infinite and unconditional mean nothing as words by themselves. I.e. infinite length, infinite density, unconditional love, unconditional refunds.

It is the part of us that gives us value and self-worth. Without it we attempt to get self-worth through accomplishments, beliefs, controlling resources, putting other people down, etc.

Do you mean that it gives us the belief we have innate value and self-worth without objects? In which case why then are such things so dependent on physiology/neurology?

Is this really all the soul does and is it actually necessary to feel self worth without such material satisfaction? This seems more psychology than supernatural.



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[Prizebeatz1]

Why Believe in a god?

And if they do so and come to a different conclusion to you?
infinite in what sense? Unconditional regarding what? These words are meaningless without context, they are adjectives so where is their noun? Infinite and unconditional mean nothing as words by themselves. I.e. infinite length, infinite density, unconditional love, unconditional refunds.


Do you mean that it gives us the belief we have innate value and self-worth without objects? In which case why then are such things so dependent on physiology/neurology?

Is this really all the soul does and is it actually necessary to feel self worth without such material satisfaction? This seems more psychology than supernatural.



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Drawing one's own conclusion is what is supposed to happen. How else can we know if God is real for ourselves? Should we depend on someone's else's view? I think that misses the point. The truth can be seen from many different vantage points. Doesn't our viewpoint matter? Or do we buy into the collective personality which convinces us we are worthless and therefore so are our opinions and viewpoints?

Notice how the personality tries to understand something that requires giving up the need to have answers. It is always dependent on something. The soul is a reversal of this desperate dependency. It requires letting go of all illusion of control. Be still and know that I am God. We begin the journey by entering into perfect silence and stillness in order to experience the peace of God which surpasses all understanding. We become fulfilled, content and the feeling of I lack nothing takes over. There are no desires in this state, not even the desire to ask a question because we are already one with the answer.

The soul is infinite meaning it is everywhere. It is one with God, heaven and salvation. As in the story of Jesus, like Father like Son. It is eternal meaning it is timelessness in itself. Unconditional means it does not depend on whether we believe it or not, doesn't depend on time or events in history, on Jesus dying on the cross, doesn't depend on certain situations or favorable conditions for it's existence or effectiveness.

It is the realization that the personality is not who we really are. That all beliefs come from the personality which is what tricks is into thinking we are separate from God. The soul is our true identity and it is a miracle beyond our wildest imagination. The personality is an imitation.


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[Tyrathca]

The personality tries to understand something that requires giving up the need to have answers.

And yet here you are thinking you have answers... :/

We begin the journey by entering into perfect silence and stillness in order to experience the peace of God which surpasses all understanding. We become fulfilled, content and the feeling of I lack nothing takes over. There are no desires in this state, not even the desire to ask a question because we are already one with the answer.

This just sounds like meditation. Which means your interpretation of the experience is just one of many different interpretations many of which don't involve a god at all.

The soul is infinite meaning it is everywhere. It is one with God, heaven and salvation.

See this is where it gets confusing. Your idea of the soul seems to be very different to others. Many others have described the soul to me as something very personal and specific to each person. Which makes me wish you stopped all using the same name for it.

It is the realization that the personality is not who we really are. That all beliefs come from the personality which is what tricks is into thinking we are separate from God. The soul is our true identity and it is a miracle beyond our wildest imagination. The personality is an imitation.

You've really said a lot to say nothing. In no part of your long evidence and reasoning free statement did you actually say what the soul does and why we should consider it who we truly are.

It's all just vague ramblings and playing linguistic gymnastics with buzzwords to my eyes. You remind me of Depak Chopra, lots of verbosity giving the illusion of sounding profound whilst actually saying nothing of substance.

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[Ben Masada]

Not a what, but a who. It would have to be a omniscient, omnipotent being. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Eom.1:20

How can we prove the existence of God if He is invisible to us?

 

[Ben Masada]

It doesn't matter why it exists. Knowing salvation is to know Grace and does not require an explanation.

How salvation has any thing to do with the existence of God? Besides, reading the NT, I came about Jesus saying that salvation comes from the Jews. (John 4:22) What did he mean?

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Why Believe in a god?

And yet here you are thinking you have answers... :/

This just sounds like meditation. Which means your interpretation of the experience is just one of many different interpretations many of which don't involve a god at all.

See this is where it gets confusing. Your idea of the soul seems to be very different to others. Many others have described the soul to me as something very personal and specific to each person. Which makes me wish you stopped all using the same name for it.

You've really said a lot to say nothing. In no part of your long evidence and reasoning free statement did you actually say what the soul does and why we should consider it who we truly are.

It's all just vague ramblings and playing linguistic gymnastics with buzzwords to my eyes. You remind me of Depak Chopra, lots of verbosity giving the illusion of sounding profound whilst actually saying nothing of substance.

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The soul connects us to God. It cannot be rationalized away. I think you have judged before you even give the soul a chance. Have you tried it for yourself?


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[6days]

Why omniscient or omnipotent?*

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.*"Rom.1:20

Evidence and logic...Eternal Power caused *everything.*

 

[6days]

How can we prove the existence of God if He is invisible to us?

How can you prove the holocaust is real? You can't prove it to some people no matter what.
The verse does not say you can prove the existence of God. Rom. 1:20 says "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

 

[Tyrathca]

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.*"Rom.1:20

Evidence and logic...Eternal Power caused *everything.*

A bible quote and your logic and evidence free assertion of having logic and evidence doesn't seem very compelling.

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[6days]

C

A bible quote and your logic and evidence free assertion of having logic and evidence doesn't seem very compelling.*

*
Actually Ty, the Bibles argument is compelling! The verse uses logic and evidence mentioning that God's eternal power can be understood by that which has been made. Both logic and science agree that some power which existed eternally caused the universe. Christians know and understand why there is the appearance of design... We know the Designer.

 

[Tyrathca]

C*
Actually Ty, the Bibles argument is compelling!

Only if you already believe in the bibles infallibility.

The verse uses logic and evidence mentioning that God's eternal power can be understood by that which has been made.

What logic and evidence? The verse is the equivalent of me saying I'm right because in quite obviously right.

Both logic and science agree that some power which existed eternally caused the universe.

You keep saying that but you're yet to shown you have much knowledge about science to consider your opinion on what it shows to be important. Quite the contrary you've always shown at best a rudimentary understanding of what science even is let alone the it's findings. My impression of science is quite the opposite of yours.

Christians know and understand why there is the appearance of design... We know the Designer.

Not even most Christians find creationism believable. Why do you expect atheists to respond more favorably?



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[6days]

A bible quote and your logic and evidence free assertion of having logic and evidence doesn't seem very compelling.*

*
Actually Ty, the Bibles argument is compelling! The verse uses logic and evidence mentioning that God's eternal power can be understood by that which has been made. Both logic and science agree that some power which existed eternally caused the universe.*

 

[Ben Masada]

How can you prove the holocaust is real? You can't prove it to some people no matter what.
The verse does not say you can prove the existence of God. Rom. 1:20 says "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

The atheists say that all that Christians claim was made by God, came out into existence as a result of the big bang. As I can see from your replies is that only by faith is possible to believe in the existence and creation of God. Is that so?

 

[6days]

Only if you already believe in the bibles infallibility.

I do...based on evidence. *God's Word is continually being proven true by science, archaeology, history, personal experience, internal consistency, and prophecy.

Both logic and science agree that some power which existed eternally caused the universe.

You keep saying that but you're yet to shown you have much knowledge about science...

My statement is based on science and logic. We know that everything which begins to exist has a cause. You obviously can't refute that so you resort to ad hominem.*

God's Word is correct.... evidence points to a power that existed eternally.

Christians know and understand why there is the appearance of design... We know the Designer.

Not even most Christians find creationism believable.

I hadn't mentioned creationism. What I said was*Christians know and understand why there is the appearance of design... We know the Designer.

 

[6days]

The atheists say that all that Christians claim was made by God, came out into existence as a result of the big bang.

People say many things, but God's Word says "in six days the*Lord*made the heavens and the earth,*the sea, and all that is in them". Ex. 20:11
No... God did not create with the Big Bang.*

As I can see from your replies is that only by faith is possible to believe in the existence and creation of God. Is that so?

*
Absolutely not! *Faith is involved, but it is a faith based on evidence. Jesus told us to love the Lord our God with all our minds. Scripture tells us to use reason for our faith. We are told to learn... to be convinced...to know. We KNOW in whom we believe.