Who's Really Saved?

WonderfulLordJesus

WonderfulLordJesus

New member
So, like you've morphed your character with invisible claims as to the nature of the discourse you've carried on, now you've morphed it that you're not asking the question you repeatedly have asked, the question you've strung along, for pages, ad nauseam. Again, there's no way you can know if another person is saved, at least with special regard to somebody of casual acquaintance.

But, since you're morphing questions, there are ways you can tell a person is not saved, is a deceptive antichrist or tare, without markings like "phony baloney" on their foreheads.

JonathanSpires said:
All persons on earth alive, Greeks(which God hath made), Hindu(which God hath made and Christ hath ministered to), Christians(which God hath made), and Atheist(which God hath made) alike; they are all of them under salvation. We can tell because they're alive. Both the Old and New Testaments tell us that the world is the Lords and that it is by his grace and mercy that we are saved. So they're actually all saved.
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J

JonathanSpires

New member
What causes such accusatory conclusions? What nature here has been invisible? How have you been offended? There's absolutely a way to tell such a thing. An antichrist is not that way however.


[emoji119]?It is through Him that we live, move, and have our being![emoji119]?
 
WonderfulLordJesus

WonderfulLordJesus

New member
JonathanSpires said:
What causes such accusatory conclusions? What nature here has been invisible? How have you been offended? There's absolutely a way to tell such a thing. An antichrist is not that way however.


[emoji119]?It is through Him that we live, move, and have our being![emoji119]?
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Who can say? It's just as mysterious as Agatha Christie, isn't it?

You're right. I shouldn't be so harsh of demonic statements that flatout repudiate the gospel of Jesus Christ, make naught the blood of Christ and make God a liar. Maybe you confused something on the back of a Cracker Jack box as the gospel. Surely you have more "mental bandwidth" than to be a trolling idiot, right?
 
J

JonathanSpires

New member
You know I've been exactly where you are, or where your comments portray you to be. I've learned to place scriptural evidence in my vocabulary even when I'm offended or my faith has been offended. I understand what you're getting at but, you should speak clearly and in full thoughts when you talk. Defend with the texts of the Word and not just accusatory conclusions.


[emoji119]?It is through Him that we live, move, and have our being![emoji119]?
 
Nick M

Nick M

Born that men no longer die
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JonathanSpires said:
I have been more focused on how God would want us to deal with others, which is the motive of my question and NOT to know hearts as God does. I don't claim that ability nor would I seek it(for various reasons).
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Why don't you want to know? Your apostle Paul said to be aware. How will you do that if you don't want to know? The Lord Jesus Christ said to judge with righteous judgment. How can you do that if you don't seek to know their heart?
 
J

JonathanSpires

New member
Yea Nick you're absolutely right. It's more a personal thing like "Lord, I know you're just using me as a willing servant, but I don't wanna know everybody's business."

I agree with you, but I probably just need a revival of my zeal. It's a necessity sometimes. To be renewed, to stir up the gift.


[emoji119]?It is through Him that we live, move, and have our being![emoji119]?
 
J

JonathanSpires

New member
Ok hold on before you place your "righteous judgement" on Jamie here Nick M. Paul says contest the scriptures. Most times a misunderstanding or lack of understanding is to explain for such statements and worst statements. So before we condemn to hell anyone let's try to see where the lacking is before we actually push someone to hell.
Present the truth. Offer salvation from ignorance. Jesus said if you deny me I will deny you, not if you don't know me, not if you don't understand me.


[emoji119]?It is through Him that we live, move, and have our being![emoji119]?
 
jamie

jamie

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JonathanSpires said:
Ok hold on before you place your "righteous judgement" on Jamie here Nick M. Paul says contest the scriptures. Most times a misunderstanding or lack of understanding is to explain for such statements and worst statements. So before we condemn to hell anyone let's try to see where the lacking is before we actually push someone to hell.
Present the truth. Offer salvation from ignorance. Jesus said if you deny me I will deny you, not if you don't know me, not if you don't understand me.
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It's okay, according to the KJV Jesus died and went to hell, but he recovered nicely.
 
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garyd509

New member
"Our repentance of bad deeds can grant us salvation." This would seem to fly in the face of Eph. 2:8-9. It is faith that saves us. Our repentance follows hard on the heels of our fatih in Jesus as the Messiah God has sent.
 
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garyd509

New member
nikolai_42 said:
I apologize for the quick post, but I have very little time - just had to respond, though. The isolation of confession, baptism and the blood of Christ is problematic for me. When God instructed the people to put the blood of the lamb on their doorposts so that the angel of death would pass over them, the effective agent in that salvation was the blood. Not the work of the individual - however, the confession of the rightness of the command and the obedience to God was evident. In other words, one who is covered by the blood (in the sense of the passover) confesses Christ by word and deed (which includes baptism). No man can call Jesus Christ Lord except by the Holy Spirit. All these things - these works - follow after in the life of one born again. As Paul told the Ephesians, they are good works we are created unto in Christ. Christ Himself is made unto us wisdom AND righteousness AND sanctification AND redemption that no flesh should glory in His presence. It really is all Him - but we need to bear fruit as evidence of that change. Fruit unto holiness and (in the end) eternal life. Not that we are made sinless, but that we are freed from its clutches. We may fall, but the trend of our lives (if we are saved) is necessarily "Godward". Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith...

(Apologies for not including scripture references - I will do so at a later time if requested).
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The blood wasn't the effective agent. It was the faith of the one who put the blood on the doorposts. They believed God and were saved.
 
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garyd509

New member
Lilstu said:
You are asking me to respond to a category of apples and oranges.
Moses and Elijah are dead. I assume God intends to resurrect them. When they resurrect to eternal life they will have been saved.
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I thought they appeared alive on the Mount of Transfiguration?
 
Tambora

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
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Nonon said:
Tambora said:
Since all have sinned, salvation cannot be based on what you do.
Romans 5:8-9 KJV​
(8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​
(9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.​




Since Christ died for us while we were sinners, it cannot be on the basis of our deeds because our deeds include sinning.

Romans 5:18 KJV
(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.​


If you are relying on any of your own righteousness, you are relying on the wrong one.
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i think that's fair

though he also tells us to bear fruit with repentance

so we're saved completely because of him > then we start imitating him cause he saved us
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Hi Nonon,

"then we start imitating him"​

I'm going to share my view of this part of the statement.
Not to argue if my view is right or wrong, but just to give my perspective from the stories in scripture and also stories of lives around me.

I do not believe that being more "Christ like" is an earmark to determine if one is a Christian.
And here's why I believe that .......

I have known Christians that seem to sin less after becoming a Christian.
But I have also known Christians that seem to sin more after becoming a Christians.
And then there are several that fall into the category I consider myself in --- those that don't seem to sin any more or less after becoming a Christian.

So I'm sure what being "Christ like" really even means, since there is not a single person in history that even comes close to comparison.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
garyd509 said:
The blood wasn't the effective agent. It was the faith of the one who put the blood on the doorposts. They believed God and were saved.
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So it didn't matter who or what they believed - just that they believed (something or someone)? I know that's not precisely what you are saying, but the point is that one's faith is only as good as its object. So your statement that the blood wasn't the effective agent doesn't follow with saying that the faith was the effective agent. You might well say the blood WAS the effective agent but only inosofar as that faith was rested on the right object did it do anything for the believing one. But to say the blood wasn't the effective agent is like saying that when you trust a chair enough to sit down in it (place your trust in its ability to hold you up) that you are the effective agent in holding you up....
 
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