No passover was ever used for the pardoning of sins. There were 3 types of sacrifice, one supposedly a burnt offering (may have been plain food), one to pardon sins, one a rescue offering. The passover is a rescue offering. The lamb now a ram has to forgive you as a high priest. You are confusing pardoning of sins with atonement of sins. Jesus death minus a resurrection couldn't have provided atonement either, except for the burial of the body.
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Whom Jesus called dead in “let the dead bury the dead”(Lk9-60)?
- Thread starter stephengoswami
- Start date
Actually it is a not reasonable (and indeed foolishness with God) to assume and/or believe that because Jesus died on the cross all human transgressions are forgiven, simply when one repeats a slogan.
If that was the case heaven would have been fully established on earth and eveyone's life would have been 'good' immediately after Jesus' death on the cross.
If that was the case then nothing further needed to be said or done.
For after those who belive that and proceeded to repeat their slogan they would have achieved heaven on earth among themsleves and in their lives and eventuly, i.e. by now, everyone would have followed them because of their proven suiccess. For indeed everyone seeks heaven and a hevenly life on earth.
It is becaue the very great mjority of those called to Christianity belive such foolishness that, as Jesus prophesised, many are called and few chosen.
They all belive that since Jesus death on the cross they have all automatically become children of God.
They are gravely misguided. Fact is that the very great majority (i.e. all but a few) of people on earth are born (i.e. are brough forth to earth) as children of the flesh and they have to work at and actually achive, further transformations in order to become saved and delivered as adopted children of God.
Children of God are led (into all their works) by the Spirit of Jesus. This is how Jesus was led into all his works. What the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do is discerned in real time, all the time, within our hearts or spirits. However only those who are 'born again' can acheive communion with this Spirit of Jesus within their hearts or spirits.
If that was the case heaven would have been fully established on earth and eveyone's life would have been 'good' immediately after Jesus' death on the cross.
If that was the case then nothing further needed to be said or done.
For after those who belive that and proceeded to repeat their slogan they would have achieved heaven on earth among themsleves and in their lives and eventuly, i.e. by now, everyone would have followed them because of their proven suiccess. For indeed everyone seeks heaven and a hevenly life on earth.
It is becaue the very great mjority of those called to Christianity belive such foolishness that, as Jesus prophesised, many are called and few chosen.
They all belive that since Jesus death on the cross they have all automatically become children of God.
They are gravely misguided. Fact is that the very great majority (i.e. all but a few) of people on earth are born (i.e. are brough forth to earth) as children of the flesh and they have to work at and actually achive, further transformations in order to become saved and delivered as adopted children of God.
Children of God are led (into all their works) by the Spirit of Jesus. This is how Jesus was led into all his works. What the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do is discerned in real time, all the time, within our hearts or spirits. However only those who are 'born again' can acheive communion with this Spirit of Jesus within their hearts or spirits.
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No passover was ever used for the pardoning of sins. There were 3 types of sacrifice, one supposedly a burnt offering (may have been plain food), one to pardon sins, one a rescue offering. The passover is a rescue offering. The lamb now a ram has to forgive you as a high priest. You are confusing pardoning of sins with atonement of sins. Jesus death minus a resurrection couldn't have provided atonement either, except for the burial of the body.
I think you are equating Jesus death as just anothe passover lamb. We must realize that every passover lamb was pointing to The Lamb of God. His blood does atone for our sins
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Heres the reconciliation
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Actually it is a not reasonable (and indeed foolishness with God) to assume and/or believe that because Jesus died on the cross all human transgressions are forgiven, simply when one repeats a slogan.
If that was the case heaven would have been fully established on earth and eveyone's life would have been 'good' immediately after Jesus' death on the cross.
If that was the case then nothing further needed to be said or done.
For after those who belive that and proceeded to repeat their slogan they would have achieved heaven on earth among themsleves and in their lives and eventuly, i.e. by now, everyone would have followed them because of their proven suiccess. For indeed everyone seeks heaven and a hevenly life on earth.
It is becaue the very great mjority of those called to Christianity belive such foolishness that, as Jesus prophesised, many are called and few chosen.
They all belive that since Jesus death on the cross they have all automatically become children of God.
They are gravely misguided. Fact is that the very great majority (i.e. all but a few) of people on earth are born (i.e. are brough forth to earth) as children of the flesh and they have to work at and actually achive, further transformations in order to become saved and delivered as adopted children of God.
Children of God are led (into all their works) by the Spirit of Jesus. This is how Jesus was led into all his works. What the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do is discerned in real time, all the time, within our hearts or spirits. However only those who are 'born again' can acheive communion with this Spirit of Jesus within their hearts or spirits.
The payment for ALL sins has been made. Accepting the parsdon of those sins has not been accepted. Thats the difference. What is happening noe is an invitation for "whosoever will come"
to repeat it is not believing in an historical fact thst Jesus died on the cross(although many still don't believe that) or that Jesus is God as He said( although many don't believe thst as well) it is applying this information to oneself that brings salvation. We must know we are sinners and in NEED of a savior to accept Jesus. MANY see thir need but don't accept Jesus as the answer to theit need. Others don't ever acknowledge thier need of a savior. The price is paid , The offer is open and the choice is ours. The Holy Spirit will convict our souls that we are sinners and are in need of Jesus, but we are not forced. We have to decide.
The payment for ALL sins has been made.
You are making that up as you go along . . . . wishful thinking?
What about those who continue to discern wisdom in the law (i.e. the Ten Commandments) and/or still esteem the law, they are under the law and not under Grace and being in Christ is not for them, not so?
There are those who still discern wisdom in the law. God has enabled them to remain Old persons and be judged under the law. They acccrue sin under the Old system. Nothing has changed for them. Why must you grudge them?
Even the very great majority (i.e. all but a few) of those who call themselves Christians discerned wisdom in the law and therefore, they are not Christians but Moses-ians. They are over a billion strong. They are all still under the law and they will be judged under the law. They are not under Grace. However no one makes it under the law, so none of them made it or will make it. Many are called but few are chosen.
There are those who want to continue to be circumcised (i.e. to be under the law) and they are debtors to do the whole law. They connot be and are not under Grace of God. However, only being under Grace of God stop one from accruing sin. Therefore it is inevitable that they will continue to sin in the Old way. Their sin is not forgiven. They have not embraced Jesus in his second coming in His Spirit, so they cannot be and are not, under grace of God. They are not children of God.
God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God. The great masses (who belive that they are Christians) have rejected that offer. They were told to not look at thing that are 'seen' (i.e. physical) for such things are not eternal (i.e. like Jesus in a physical body). They are told to look at things that are not seen (like Jesus in His Spirit), instead.
These unaware people who misguidedly belive that they are Christians still look for Jesus in the physical or temporal which is not eternal. They do not look at things that are not seen and eternal like Jesus in His Spirit. Also they continue to discern wisdom in the law. They have rejected the Spirit of Jesus and the freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the law which is God given to individuals and societies that are 'in Christ'.
The very great majority (i.e. al but a few) of these billion strong set of people who are called Christians and who belive that they are Christians were and are, still unaware and not yet ready for Christianity. They are not yet 'born again'. Therefore they remain unaware of Jesus' Spirit within their own hearts or spirits. So they cannot be 'in Christ'. Yet they falsely belive that they were and are, Christians and many of them proceeded to teach Christianity. They became false prophets who came in Jesus' name and porceeded to misguide many. They are the leaders and elders in traditional Christinity.
After Jesus' death on the cross and up to this day, only those who became 'in Christ' are sinless. And they are few, they are the chosen few. Everyone else (and they are all, eveyone but a few) continue to accrue sin the Old way.
Everyone in traditonal Christianiy and that is more than a billion strong still discern wisdom in the Ten Commandments. Therefore they are all debtors to do the whole law. They must uphold all the Ten Commandments absolutely perfectly in order to be in righteousness with God. That is impossible. They all sin and will all sin and fall short of the glory of God. They have rejected Grace. Jesus was of no value to them. Moses, the Ten Commandments and sin continue to be of value to them.
You are aware that God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God and so differ in no way from Jesus. And you are aware that where this Spirit is there is freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the law and not get sin.
Under the Spirit of Jesus sin has no dominion over one, even when one transgress the Ten Commandments.
God can only offer them the Spirit of Jesus. If they reject the Spirit in prefrence for the law, then that is their choice. They will continue to accrue sin and be judged under the law which they discern to be wise. Their choice.
Fact is once you discern wisdom in the law it defines right and wrong for you. You cannot escape it. If you say with your mouth that 'the law is nothing for you' you are simply denying your self, lying to yourself. You might fool yourself and other humans. However you cannot fool God. God knows that you discern wisdom in the law. You are therefore required to uphold the law totally, completely and perfectly for your righteousness. You will ineviatably accrue (get) sin and fall short of the glory of God. You will be judged under the law and according to the law.
If you discern wisdom in the Ten Commandments it is becaue you believe in them. Then regardless of what you say with your mouth the Ten Commandments defines right and wrong for you. Therefore you are under the law and you must uphold all of them toally and perfectly in order to be in rightgeousness with God. You will not be able to do that. You will be among the very great majority (i.e. all but a few) of those called. You will not be chosen.
Also you are not Christian. Then if you teach your ways as being Christianity, you are a false peophet who came in Jesus' name and you are misguiding many. Stop it.
When one is actually under Grace of God one will say, 'be done with the Ten Commandments'. It is a stumbling block on the path of my Spiritual guidance.
When one is authentically under Grace of God, the Ten Commandments will be folly for one. One will discern no wisdom in the law. One will not be guided by the Ten Commandments. One will be led by the Spirit of Jesus as discerned within one's own heart at all events, even if one has to transgress the law (i.e. the Ten Commandments).
However as Jesus confirmed one will render onto Cesear things that are Cesear. Indeed therefore, one will obey the laws of the land.
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The Law of Moses didn't even apply to Abraham nor me or you.
i do not have a choice by which I am condemned.
We are condemned already
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
We don't acrue sin to be guilty, we are gulity already and can only be pardoned because we are guilty.
the sin debt has been paid for the entire world.
Jhn 1:29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
should this be changed to PART of the WORLD, no, it is the whole world.
and again
Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Is a man in the Amazon, who has never heard of Moses Law judge by Moses Law? no. You are applying the purpose of the Law to all people over all time when it was only for Jews between Moses and Jesus
i do not have a choice by which I am condemned.
We are condemned already
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
We don't acrue sin to be guilty, we are gulity already and can only be pardoned because we are guilty.
the sin debt has been paid for the entire world.
Jhn 1:29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
should this be changed to PART of the WORLD, no, it is the whole world.
and again
Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Is a man in the Amazon, who has never heard of Moses Law judge by Moses Law? no. You are applying the purpose of the Law to all people over all time when it was only for Jews between Moses and Jesus