Who is the Remnant Church?

[Right Divider]

So you make statements without showing any scripture support !

The words "remnant" and "church" never appear together in scripture.... so who's making assumptions?

 

[Pipiripi]

False assumption!

What about Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 14:12? Don't you know that everybody that have Jesus as their LORD AND SAVIOUR, are in Israelite? Don't you know that we are Israelites spiritual? Begin to keep your eyes out of the literally Israel. John the Baptist says, that God can make Israelites from the stone. Don't you understand now what makes a person an true israelite?

 

[Pipiripi]

The words "remnant" and "church" never appear together in scripture.... so who's making assumptions?

What is remnant and what is church?

 

[Pipiripi]

Welcome to the divided kingdom of Yah...

between those that do wish to Be MORE like Him His Ways vs those that claim the OT is NOT FOR ME

you see? Sabbath makes people so MAD they claim they are NOT part of well...His people...although they believe they are SAVED...

they LOOT the promise but reject the very Law which enshrines IT and secures their right to it by adoption which He guaranteed at the cross...

they are SQUATTERS in His kingdom insisting they have no house rules or chores...

faith for them makes void the Law despite Paul’s insistence we establish it and that we copy him as he copied Christ...JUST AS...

oh well...like I said...they are MAD...rioting and looting demanding the police are defunded...LOL

seriously go research Scofield Darby and their Zionist Mid Acts Deception...errr Decepticon....sorry I mean Dispensationalists...

and be amazed how transformed this gospel has become...

My friend if you cannot keep the Sabbath today, then you cannot keep it in the New World that God are going to created. Read first Isaiah 56:1-8. Then Isaiah 66:22-24. God is talking about after this world. Please don't fight God. Let me help you.

 

[beloved57]

What about Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 14:12? Don't you know that everybody that have Jesus as their LORD AND SAVIOUR, are in Israelite? Don't you know that we are Israelites spiritual? Begin to keep your eyes out of the literally Israel. John the Baptist says, that God can make Israelites from the stone. Don't you understand now what makes a person an true israelite?

Hi there. Those two scriptures refer to the body of Christ, the church, His body! Spiritual Israel

 

[Pipiripi]

Hi there. Those two scriptures refer to the body of Christ, the church, His body! Spiritual Israel

No my friend, you must read the story about the content to see what it means. By taking verses here and there you cannot come to the true meaning of the words of God.

 

[beloved57]

No my friend, you must read the story about the content to see what it means. By taking verses here and there you cannot come to the true meaning of the words of God.

You sound like you are not enlighten by God!

 

[Right Divider]

What is remnant and what is church?

If you don't know what those words mean, then you have no business in your own discussion.

 

[God's Truth]

Post number or quote him.

Bearing false witness is a sin, GT.

I don't ever lie.
I don't ever bear false witness.
Here is the post he said it.

No, I don't -- you false accusing devil.

The entire Bible is MUCH MORE than a story about individual personal salvation.

You are what I would call a "Christian humanist" as that's all that you focus on.

God's glory is FAR GREATER than just saving people from their sins.

 

[God's Truth]

You mean how like even in Nature's biology a graft is most successful when the branch is of the same family/genome? Bearing MORE similar fruit with the other branches NOT CUT OFF...and NOT LESS similar...

So in this case gentile branches bear MORE similar fruit to the other branches THAT REMAIN FOR THEIR BELIEF and the Sabbath keeping root and clean eating trunk...as per Acts 15 council...and NOT olives from fig branches figs from vine...

Peter taught NO DISTINCTION was made between the OF JACOB trunk and NOT OF JACOB branches grafted in..."and we Jews are saved AS they Gentiles are " by faith and gift of grace...

as it was when THIS Body with Him as its Head was in the OT wilderness ALREADY full of those NOT OF JACOB...given the Promise and adopted IN...by the SAME LAW securing their rights...ON CONDITION as ALL ARE...

Gentiles are an olive tree and Jews are an olive tree.

The difference is that the Jews olive tree was cultivated by God.

The Gentile olive tree was wild.

The Jews olive tree was cared for by God.

The wild olive tree grew wild with no one looking after it.

When Jesus came, God cut off branches, which symbolizes people.

God cut off branches because He came to make a new covenant that some of the people did not qualify anymore to stay in the cultivated tree.

When any Gentile does what Jesus says to do according to the new covenant, they get to be cut off from their wild olive tree and put in the cultivated one.

 

[God's Truth]

If you're referring to what Paul said in Romans 11, I ask that you read it again more closely.

Christ is the root.
Israel is the natural branches.
The believing gentiles are the wild branch.
God cut off the unbelieving natural branches,
and grafted in the wild branch.
God will graft back in again the natural branches that were cut off when the fullness of the gentiles has come in.

There are two diifferent plants' branches here, the natural, domesticated olive tree, and the wild olive tree.



Paul doesn't say anything about fig trees in Romans 11.

In any case, it's not a matter of bearing fruit, but rather about being made holy by being grafted in:

For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. - Romans 11:16-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans11:16-18&version=NKJV



Here is what Peter says:

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.” - Acts 15:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts15:11&version=NKJV.

Future tense.

Meaning it hasn't happened yet for those saved in the New Covenant.

Paul, however, states that we are already saved, 1 Corinthians 1:18, 15:2, 2 Corinthians 2:15, present tense (or present active tense in the Greek).



The Body of Christ did not exist prior to Paul. 1 Timothy 1:16



Were there Gentiles who became proselytes in the Old Testament? YES!

Does that mean that the Body of Christ existed prior to Paul? NO!

That was the Old Covenant God made EXCLUSIVELY with Israel, and if a Gentile wanted to take part in it, he had to become a Jew. In other words, there was a distinction between Jew and Gentile in the Old (and even the New!) Covenant. But Paul says that there is "no distinction between Jew and Greek" in the Body of Christ.

Two separate programs for different people groups.

Jesus is the body and he existed before Paul.
When Jesus comes again, it will be too late to be saved, for he is not coming again to bear sin.

When he comes again it will be for those already saved, and then to give wrath and eternal damnation in the lake of fire to his enemies.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[God's Truth]

When Jesus walked the earth, he taught how to get in him. That he taught was to the Jews first.

Jesus taught about BEING IN HIS BODY:


John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

John 15:4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Matthew 26:26-28And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body…



The body of Christ is THE CHURCH, and Jesus taught about THE CHURCH.



Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church,and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Matthew 18:15 [ Dealing With Sin in the Church ] “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

Matthew 18:17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
.

 

[God's Truth]

I would also add to my last post Psalm 51.



Notice that David, in his repentance for killing Uriah and taking Bathsheba as his own wife, asks God for a new, clean, heart. This is the very essence of being born again. And remember Jesus quite clearly chided Nicodemus, a teacher in Israel, for not understanding what it meant to be born again. This means the concept of being born again should have been known to the Jews of Jesus' day. Otherwise there was no foundation to Jesus' chiding of Nicodemus. In other words, if the concept of the new birth was not taught in the OT Jesus was lying by chiding Nicodemus for not understanding it. And we know Jesus never sinned.

David includes the concept of the Holy Spirit and it's importance in the role of obedience to God. You know, like Paul's statement: for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. And he says that the presence of the Holy Spirit in his life is the foundation for him to be able to teach others about God. Especially notice the last 4 verses in which David shows how the Isrealites understood true repentance. It was a broken spirit and a contrite heart that God accepts as repentance. And then David links that to the sacrificial system of burnt offerings to demonstrate their true meaning.

Remember also that David lived 1500 years before Jesus. This was the long time understanding of the sinner's position before God and what was meant by repentance in the teachings of the Bible. It's no wonder Jesus condemned the Pharisees and Sadducees for not understanding the Bible. They had moved a long ways away from a relational understanding of salvation to the legalistic ideas they held in Jesus' time. Jesus was not revealing anything new. He was cleaning away the rubbish that was hiding the truth during His days on earth.

So those who point to the Pharisees as holding a Biblical position on salvation, law keeping, the new birth, righteousness, etc... are dead wrong. The Jewish leadership during Jesus' day had pretty much everything wrong. That's why they hated Jesus. He showed how corrupt and wrongheaded they were. And they hated that. There was no attitude of repentance and asking for a change of heart within them. They were satisfied with who they were without God in their lives. That is self-righteousness, and the Bible teaches that is a belief that leads to death starting with the writings of Moses. In other words, from the very beginning of the Bible.

David being forgiven for which things there was no sacrifice under the law was a glimpse at a covenant God would make one day, and He did make when Jesus came.

 

[God's Truth]

As to a saint being glorified and conforming to the image of Christ I asked you:

would Abel Enoch Noah Abraham Moses Elijah balk at water baptism or the Lord’s Prayer...or communion?​

Or Sabbath, festivals, and clean meats?

I mean "copy me as I copy Christ" is the image of Christ which Paul was encouraging yes? Establish the Law? Is why he kept Sabbaths and festivals...

Any claims to be IN HIM is to LIVE AS HE DID...said John...that would be conforming to the image of Christ yes?

His lifestyle...His Way...His keeping of His Father's commandments...you know those in the OT...​

The new covenant that Jesus taught while he walked the earth is that he is the one who forgives just by you repenting to him. No more having to get circumcised in the flesh as a seal and sign, for the Holy Spirit is the seal and sign in the new covenant. No more various external washings as done in the old law, for Jesus' blood washes us now and the obedience to his word. No more having to go to a priest, for Jesus is the High Priest and we are priests. No more having to adhere to a special diet, for all are made clean through Jesus. No more having to observe special days, for all the special days are about Jesus and we are in him all day every day. No more sacrificing animals, for Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb of God once and for all.

 

[God's Truth]

My friend go and see again with which person Paul is talking to.

There is a debate about Sabbath, go on YouTube and take a look maybe you can learn something.

Jim Staley/Chris Rosenberg.

You can ask them to come here and try to debate.

Paul was talking to the Galatians about how they fell away from grace and have to get saved again, because they let Jews talk them into getting circumcised and observe special days.

 

[God's Truth]

The words "remnant" and "church" never appear together in scripture.... so who's making assumptions?

The remnant are those Jews saved by grace.

1. Romans 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
2. Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

There was a remnant saved when Jesus walked the earth, AND AFTER THAT, there is a remnant saved according to grace.

 

[God's Truth]

No my friend, you must read the story about the content to see what it means. By taking verses here and there you cannot come to the true meaning of the words of God.

Jesus' body, the church, and Spiritual Israel are all the same.

 

[beloved57]

gt

When Jesus walked the earth, he taught how to get in him. That he taught was to the Jews first.

Thats false Paul told believers how they got into Christ 1 Cor 1:30

<sup>30 [/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

This refers to Gods Election before the foundation !</sup>

 

[beloved57]

Right, nowhere in the Bible is the word 'remnant' used to refer to the Church the Body of Christ.

Yes it is Rom 11:5-6

⁵ Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. ⁶ And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

These jews Paul is writing about here are part of the Body of Christ, or else there's no Salvation by Grace for them !

 

[Nanja]

Yes it is Rom 11:5-6

⁵ Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. ⁶ And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

These jews Paul is writing about here are part of the Body of Christ, or else there's no Salvation by Grace for them !

Perfectly stated Brother !