ECT WHO IS THE ONE WHO BAPTIZES TODAY ??

[dodge]

musterion;4980607]He wasn't talking to or about us when He said that. His disciples were preaching "to none but Jews only" for some time after that.

Sure He was talking to us and for us ! You have really dug yourself into a deep hole to stay in the lie.

Here is a question I know you will not answer.Who is behind stealing God's word from the hearts of people ?

Jesus said to teach and baptize "ALL" nations teaching to them to do what ? Oh yeh it was to be baptized in the name of the Father , Son, and Holy Ghost, and to observe all HE taught them.

Who to believe YOU or Jesus ? I will believe and trust Jesus, which means you are deceived and do not even know that you are deceived.

You can't be saved by (1) being baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ, AND (2) being water baptized in a church by men.

More diversion. Every person that was saved in the NT was water baptized INCLUDING Paul, and I guess you know more than Jesus and Paul !

That makes TWO SEPARATE baptisms, one by the Spirit without H20, one by men with H20.

You are purposefully trying to muddy the waters because it goes against what you THINK is true and ignoring ALL scriptural evidence to follow YOURSELF.

Paul said there's only ONE, without H20.

WRONG AGAIN: Paul was water baptized as was every person in the NT that got saved.

Folks are water baptized as scripture says to identify with the death and burial of Jesus ( going down in to the water) and rising out of the water to identify with the resurrection of Jesus as in the old man is dead and risen to newness of life in Christ Jesus.

Rom 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

1Pe 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

You deny Scripture in favor of human tradition, as usual.

You argue against scripture because scripture PROVES you are following YOU and not God. Your loss not mine.

Pretty convenient and deceptive how Satan convinced many folks to follow themselves and what they think as opposed to what Jesus taught. All Satan had to do was say "has God said" then call God's word into question so they could rely on themselves, same as Eve, instead of what God said.

 

[musterion]

Sure He was talking to us and for us ! You have really dug yourself into a deep hole to stay in the lie.

Matthew 10:5

Matthew 15:24

Go ahead and call Him a liar.

 

[DAN P]

Phl 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Hi MUSTERION , so it seem he is a WORKER BEE type for his salvation !!

He does not understand how people are saved NOR understand what Phil 2:12 really means ??

Salvation has to FIRST be in us , BEFORE it can be worked on and out !!

dan p

 

[musterion]

He's at least starting to give and take, on another thread. Maybe there's hope...

 

[DAN P]

He's at least starting to give and take, on another thread. Maybe there's hope...

Hi and maybe so ??

dan p

 

[glorydaz]

Not really. I believe scripture was fulfilled in stages exactly as God intended for the events to be revealed. Like when God withheld the meaning of what Jesus taught for a time.

I honestly do not see but one Gospel in scripture. Jesus said HE had other sheep in a different fold, which I believe were gentiles that He would save with the setting aside of the Jews for a time. They were removed and gentiles were grafted into the same tree the Jews were removed from, which eventually the Jews will be grafted back into the same tree not a different tree.

Scripture flows from event to event with one theme "God loves us " and has done what needed to be done in Jesus to bring rebellious sinners back in to the fold through the Gospel that He provides.


I am careful about what I accept as God's truth when it deviates from the prophecies, teachings, and continuity of scripture.

The scriptures and I have been companions since March 19th 1978 and much of what I thought was correct in a scriptural sense God has corrected over the years, but I depend on God through the Holy Spirit to teach me NOT man. Here is a scriptural option I will pray that God lead you into HIS truths and ask that you do the same for me. For every scripture those in MAD post I see a conflicting scripture in scripture that points to one Gospel, and if I am wrong I believe God will lead me as He has done since 1978. It really isn't about what you believe to be true or what I believe to be true it is about lining up with, believing, and accepting God's truth.

Sounds like we've been on the same journey for about the same amount of time. It's always a good thing to remain open as we study God's word. :carryon:

 

[jamie]

Matthew 10:5

Matthew 15:24

Go ahead and call Him a liar.

Did you not know Jesus was sent to make full the law, not to subvert it?

The NT began when Jesus was raised from the dead, not before.

 

[glorydaz]

I would suggest to you that water baptism is part of the gospel. Please bare with me.

John the baptist was to "prepare" the way of the Lord. He did so by baptizing, Mk. 1:1-4. This was something new. In the OT, there were washings but not baptisms. The OT was a physical shadow to help us better understand the spiritual things in Christ. In this case, the high priest could only approach God after washing with water and offering blood (animal). I would suggest to you we approach God the same way today but by better things, the water of baptism and the blood of Christ.

Johns baptism was for repentance but could not remove sin because it didn't have Jesus' blood behind it.

I believe John's baptism of repentance was for the Jews. They needed to show their acceptance of Jesus Christ as OUR GOD as predicted throughout the OT. It's why the apostle John made it so clear that John the Baptist was the one being referred to in Isaiah about preparing the way for OUR GOD. Remember the shema told the Jews, "The Lord our God is one Lord", and they would be required to accept that this indeed was Immanuel (God with us).

Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.​

Once Jesus offered himself in true holy of holies, he was given ALL authority in heaven and on earth, Matt. 28:18. He then commissions his apostles to "make" Christians by baptizing them in the name of the father, son and HS. I would suggest to you that is the key, "in the name of".

Here is a clear example of that, Acts 18:24-19:7. In Ephesus Apollos preached Jesus. The bible tells us: He was an eloquent man, competent in the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John. He knew the truth with only one exception, baptism.

And he reminds me of you in that he didn't understand the purposes of the various baptisms. Notice he was eloquent in the scriptures....that would be OT. Notice, too, when they took him aside, they corrected him (undoubtedly preaching Paul's Gospel of salvation).

Acts 18:26KJV
And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.​

I'm going to wait on the rest of your post until you consider what I've said thus far.

 

[glorydaz]

If I can, I will. But you won't say anything of substance. So if you're honest, start with this:

What does the "one baptism" needed today for salvation look like?

Where should one go to receive it?

Who performs it?

How much water is needed?

I'll tell you what mine looked like. :cloud9:

It was awesome....life changing. I had just had the Gospel preached to me by a little old Jewish lady (completed), and I went up in the attic of our log cabin and prayed. As I prayed, I experienced the sun coming out as if my entire life was a cloudy day. There was no water, but there was the Holy Spirit doing His work in my heart. It was as if it was yesterday, and whenever I read this verse, I know well the effects of what the Spirit had accomplished that day.

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.​

 

[glorydaz]

Your post was thorough and backed up by scripture. I only know of one entity that works really hard to move folks from God's truths and his name is Satan.

It gets complicated at times but I often remind myself we do not war against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high places ,principalities and powers etc.

The only reason anyone needs to be water baptized to me is because Jesus said to be water baptized, and along comes the spiritual forces ( wicked ) and say you do not have to follow Jesus' teachings and the excuse are His teachings are not for us. Wonder who came up with Jesus' teachings are not for us ? I believe that name would be Beelzebub.

You really did a good job making the case to follow Jesus, but then again there will always be resistance from the spiritual wickedness in high places to actually follow Jesus.

Keep the SON in your eyes.

Oh dear. So you're saying those who don't believe water baptism is necessary for salvation are working for satan? :jawdrop:

 

[glorydaz]

The very best way to understand is to stay in the bible, pray, and seek God's face and ask for the Holy Spirit to guide you and reveal God's truth to you.

John 14:6/ Eph.2:8-10 is where I placed my faith years ago and while Satan tries relentlessly to move me off of that it aint happening.

Jesus said , " I am the way,the truth and the life, and no man comes to the Father but by me".

Then Ephesians 2:8-10 "for by grace have you been saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast".

P.S. most of the time those caught up in deceptions and lies will ask a ton of questions to divert you away from scripture and rarely answer any questions.

I'm seeing a danger for those who insist water baptism (something man must do) would be something they can boast over. If it's on a "TO DO" list it should be excluded, wouldn't you think?

 

[dodge]

Oh dear. So you're saying those who don't believe water baptism is necessary for salvation are working for satan? :jawdrop:

UN-like those in MAD I do not believe Jesus , God in the flesh, taught to just the News. There are to many teachings of Jesus that are universal.

When Jesus said to teach and baptize "ALL" nations that was universal for everyone.

 

[dodge]

I'm seeing a danger for those who insist water baptism (something man must do) would be something they can boast over. If it's on a "TO DO" list it should be excluded, wouldn't you think?

I would believe if Jesus taught to do it just do it.

I am aware of the verses where Jesus said He was sent to Israel;however, many of Jesus' teachings were and are universal and for everyone.

 

[dodge]

Oh dear. So you're saying those who don't believe water baptism is necessary for salvation are working for satan? :jawdrop:

Not actively working for Satan but deceived by men changing God's words and instructions yes.

 

[glorydaz]

UN-like those in MAD I do not believe Jesus , God in the flesh, taught to just the News. There are to many teachings of Jesus that are universal.

When Jesus said to teach and baptize "ALL" nations that was universal for everyone.

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

These all gathered at Pentecost (a Jewish feast). I bring this up because you see the Jews and Proselytes resided in "every nation".

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,​

So this call to make disciples was given when Jesus had risen from the dead, but before He had ascended to the Father...before he gave revelation to Paul concerning the gospel of salvation. I'm far from an expert on this subject, but I'm confident water baptism is not required of us lest Paul would have made that clear in his teachings.

 

[glorydaz]

Not actively working for Satan but deceived by men changing God's words and instructions yes.

I guess we could say the same about you attempting to keep people under the law...which the necessity for water baptism would do.

 

[glorydaz]

I would believe if Jesus taught to do it just do it.

I am aware of the verses where Jesus said He was sent to Israel;however, many of Jesus' teachings were and are universal and for everyone.

If that's what you feel Jesus would have you do it, then do it. But, don't try and insist others take it as a rule others must follow. Most people I know who get baptised do it as an outward expression of their belief. They may also set up a food kitchen to feed the poor. They may also begin the practice of breaking bread. There are lots of things that people might opt to do, as Jesus did, but we should always walk according to our own convictions on these matters, lest they become laws....which our Lord has delivered us from.

 

[dodge]

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

These all gathered at Pentecost (a Jewish feast). I bring this up because you see the Jews and Proselytes resided in "every nation".

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,​

So this call to make disciples was given when Jesus had risen from the dead, but before He had ascended to the Father...before he gave revelation to Paul concerning the gospel of salvation. I'm far from an expert on this subject, but I'm confident water baptism is not required of us lest Paul would have made that clear in his teachings.

Jesus' teachings were not just for the lost sheep of Israel, and nor were His teachings.

Jhn 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Looks like gentiles were always part of God's plans as He knew Israel would reject their Messiah. There is never a plan b with God he knows the end from the beginning, and that is why I believe the teachings of Jesus are for the B.O.C..

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus' teachings were not lust for the lost sheep of Israel, and nor were His teachings.

Jhn 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Looks like gentiles were always part of God's plans as He knew Israel would reject their Messiah. There is never a plan b with God he knows the end from the beginning, and that is why I believe the teachings of Jesus are for the B.O.C..

Well, Jesus preached the law, and after He ascended to the Father, things changed. The Holy Spirit (Comforter) could not be given until after He ascended.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.​

And this....What Jesus preached when He walked the earth....

Matt. 5:19-20KJV Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.​

What the RISEN LORD revealed to Paul.

Romans 10:4KJV For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

​

So, clearly there is a plan A and a plan B.....Not either or but ongoing. There are more than that if you really think about it. What was, what is, and what is to come.

 

[turbosixx]

I already have.

Eph 4:5 cf 1 Cor 1:17

If Paul was not SENT to water baptize others (even though he did water baptize a few Jewish believers), and if there is today only ONE baptism, then the one baptism for today is not and cannot be water baptism.

If not even Paul was sent to water baptize today, THEN NEITHER WAS ANYONE ELSE.

Jesus said: make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:

Paul did: Acts 19:5 And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
He did so without preaching the gospel to them.