ECT Which Gospel Preached During the Tribulation Period?

[tetelestai]

What is so difficult to understand about what Peter says?

You are the one who is making it difficult because you have MAD sunglasses on.

(2 Peter 3:16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,

According to you, Peter is unlearned and unstable.

Peter isn't saying that.

Peter understands exactly what Paul wrote.

You have to twist these verses to make them fit MAD instead of reading them and believing what they say.

 

[Nang]

The hope is Heavenly! The nation of Israel's hope is to inherit their kingdom on Earth.

What exactly is "heavenly" about the humanistic hopes of an earthly kingdom?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Peter preached the only Gospel that saves! So did Paul! So did every other man of faith from the beginning of time.

According to you we must believe that before the Cross the Twelve were preaching a gospel that declares that Christ died for our sins (1 Cor.15:3).

Here we see them preaching a gospel:

"And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:2,6).

However, that is impossible that they were preaching that "Christ died for sins" because they did not even know that the Lord Jesus was to die:

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken" (Lk.18:31-34).

How could they be telling anyone that Christ died for their sins since they did not even know that He was going to die?

You really have no business wasting other people's time on this thread because you are clueless on this subject.

 

[tetelestai]

However, that is impossible that they were preaching that "Christ died for sins" because they did not even know that the Lord Jesus was to die:

(1 Cor 15:3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

They may have not known, but according to "the scriptures" Chirst was to die for our sins.

Peter and the twelve had "the scriptures".

 

[Nang]

According to you we must believe that before the Cross the Twelve were preaching a gospel that declares that Christ died for our sins (1 Cor.15:3).

Even if those 12 did not preach the Gospel (which of course, they did), the fact is that Christ died for the sins of His people and that fact is not dependant upon the witness of man, but is fully witnessed by Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So, where is your quarrel?

How could they be telling anyone that Christ died for their sins since they did not even know that He was going to die?

Well, thankfully the Gospel never depended upon the efforts or understanding of sinful men.

Rather, the Gospel has been proclaimed in this world via the power of God, despite rejection of sinful men .. . yet directed towards all sinners . . . and ordained by God to save certain sinners without fail.

Nang

 

[Zeke]

Jesus, Peter, Paul, John did not divorce the person/identity and work of Christ. They go hand in hand as you would know if you dealt with pseudo-Christian cults or world religions. Two gospels post-cross is arbitrary.

Neo-MAD says that Paul=grace/faith, but circ gospel=faith + works. This is the Judaizer heresy, a false gospel (vs true Petrine/Johannine one), a denial of grace/faith/finished work because it is adding works as a condition. Rom. 4-5 shows it is about grace/faith, even in the OT.

If you don't agree with neo-MAD (you have your Anderson permutation), then you should distance yourself from it and make the same accusation that I am making.

You keep saying I don't explain. I have. Does it occur to you that you may miss some posts/threads or that disagreeing with me is not the same as me not responding at all?

The Lamb of God taking away sins points to the cross. Sin is dealt with by shedding blood, not walking through the desert. The statement stands regardless of the verb tense. LIkewise, Jn. 2 talks about his resurrection, even though it was yet future. Jn. 3 talks about faith in Him alone, just as Paul preached. Nick called me satanic trash for stating the obvious that few disagre with.

What was content of the gospel before Peters vision?

 

[godrulz]

What was content of the gospel before Peters vision?

It was as Christocentric as Paul's.

The disciples were slow about various things, even after Jesus had been with them and teaching them. Jesus knew about His death and resurrection. He called men to follow Him, as did Paul. A fuller Church Age understanding does not mean Jesus and the disciples were clueless or had a different way to come to God apart from the person and work of Christ.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The disciples were slow about various things,

Luke 18
33: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34: And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.


Yep, they were a bunch of Forrest Gumps.

 

[Lighthouse]

Hi Jerry

Paul says "my gospel" a whopping three times in the Bible.

Paul also says "our gospel" three times in the Bible.

So if Paul says "my" and "our" the same amount of times, what makes you think his gospel is different?

How many times did he write, "the gospel"?

You are the one who is making it difficult because you have MAD sunglasses on.

(2 Peter 3:16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,

According to you, Peter is unlearned and unstable.

Peter isn't saying that.

Peter understands exactly what Paul wrote.

You have to twist these verses to make them fit MAD instead of reading them and believing what they say.

You are such a moron. Do you honestly believe anyone is going to fall for this obvious lie?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

According to you we must believe that before the Cross the Twelve were preaching a gospel that declares that Christ died for our sins (1 Cor.15:3).

Here we see them preaching a gospel:

"And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:2,6).

However, that is impossible that they were preaching that "Christ died for sins" because they did not even know that the Lord Jesus was to die:

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken" (Lk.18:31-34).

How could they be telling anyone that Christ died for their sins since they did not even know that He was going to die?

You really have no business wasting other people's time on this thread because you are clueless on this subject.

Something hid could have been known to them before that time.

The Kingdom of God was the gospel preached throughout the OT, as written throughout the OT books, but it was not alone because the knowledge of blood sacrifice for sins was known from Adam onward including His whole plan of salvation but it was hid from men except they repent.(also written in the OT, try Ezekiel)

It was true then as it is now that men lose sight of the truth when it becomes inconceivable that God would allow the destroying of something precious to men and of great comfort while here, but unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies then it abides alone.

LA

 

[genuineoriginal]

Here's the point for you, nang and the others with simimlar views...

Many here claim that the "gospel" has been the same throughout all time. Many here claim that Peter, James, John, etc... preached the same "gospel" that Paul preached. If this is true, then why does Peter say Paul's writings are difficult to understand?

If you and I were teaching the same math classes to two groups of students using the same curriculum that every teacher before us used, and we both teach that 2 X 2 = 4, it would seem silly for me to say, "notreligus and I both teach and agree that 2 X 2 = 4, but when notreligus says '2 X 2 = 4' it is hard to understand." If we are teaching from the same curriculum, there should be no difficulties in understanding what the other teaches.

You need to expand you example to a more believable one.

If Albert Einstein and another teacher were teaching the same physics classes to two groups of students using the same curriculum, the other teacher would teach what was in the curriculum, but Albert Einstein would often be sidetracked by some gem of insight and try to share it.

The other teacher would emphasize the experimental nature of the study of physics and Newton's laws of gravity. Einstein would be trying to explain how the gravity near the sun could bend three dimentional space, which was something never heard before.

Einstein's insights cannot be understood without a lot of work to understand all the principles that were used to make the conclusions he reached.

In the same manner, Paul had a insights that require a deep understanding of the Tanach, the teachings of Jesus, and the beliefs of the Jewish communities of his day. When Paul wrote about his insights, many of the Jewish scholars of his day had trouble understanding them.

 

[genuineoriginal]

What exactly is "heavenly" about the humanistic hopes of an earthly kingdom?

God's plans to tabernacle (dwell) among men on earth is what is "heavenly" about the earthly kingdom to come.

 

[beloved57]

Remember, Paul explains, when Preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, He did not shun to declare all the counsel of God acts 20:

which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.


25And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

26Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

27For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Three elements here in Paul's Gospel preaching, its about the Grace of God vs 24

The Kingdom of God vs 25

The counsel of God vs 27


And so lets look at another prominent word in apostolic preaching !


The word appointed

To fix, to settle, to establish or fix by decree or decision: websters

Yahoo:

To appoint, decree, or ordain in advance; foreordain.
1 pet 2:

8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

1 thess 5:

9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The reasonable inference is that God hath appointed some to wrath and not to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ !

3 3That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.

acts 22:

10And I said, What shall I do, LORD? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

Job 23:

14For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Job 14:14

If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

acts 17:

26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Tet, earlier I said:

However, that is impossible that they were preaching that "Christ died for sins" because they did not even know that the Lord Jesus was to die.

To which you replied:

(1 Cor 15:3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

They may have not known, but according to "the scriptures" Chirst was to die for our sins.

Peter and the twelve had "the scriptures".

The facts are clear, tet, whether or not you are willing to acknowledge them. The Twelve did not know that the Lord Jesus was to die:

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken" (Lk.18:31-34).

Earlier they had been preaching a gospel:

"And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:2,6).

How is it possible that the gospel which they were preaching there said anything about Christ dying for sins since they did not even know He was to die?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Even if those 12 did not preach the Gospel (which of course, they did), the fact is that Christ died for the sins of His people and that fact is not dependant upon the witness of man, but is fully witnessed by Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

You prove again and again that you cannot even understand the most simple things revealed in the Scriptures. According to you since the beginning of time men have preached the same gospel which Paul preached:

Peter preached the only Gospel that saves! So did Paul! So did every other man of faith from the beginning of time.

Here Paul specifically tells us the content of his gospel:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve" (1 Cor.15:1-5).

One cannot preach the gospel which Paul preached unless the "purpose" of the Cross is mentioned--that Christ died for our sins.

So was that message a part of the gospel spoken of here?:


"And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:2,6).

Of course IT WAS NOT!

They did not even understand that the Lord Jesus must die:

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken" (Lk.18:31-34).

Even though this has been explained to you you continue to close your eyes to the truth. When it comes to the truths that are revealed in the Bible you are blind as a bat!

 

[Jacob]

You prove again and again that you cannot even understand the most simple things revealed in the Scriptures. According to you since the beginning of time men have preached the same gospel which Paul preached:

Here Paul specifically tells us the content of his gospel:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve" (1 Cor.15:1-5).

One cannot preach the gospel which Paul preached unless the "purpose" of the Cross is mentioned--that Christ died for our sins.

So was that message a part of the gospel spoken of here?:


"And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:2,6).

Of course IT WAS NOT!

They did not even understand that the Lord Jesus must die:

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken" (Lk.18:31-34).

Even though this has been explained to you you continue to close your eyes to the truth. When it comes to the truths that are revealed in the Bible you are blind as a bat!

The argument usually goes that Peter preached something different than Paul. But that is not so:

1 Peter 1:2, 11.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The argument usually goes that Peter preached something different than Paul. But that is not so:

1 Peter 1:2, 11.

The argument goes that two different gospels were preached during the Acts period. The verse you quoted was not written until after the Acts period was over.

Do you share the opinion of Nang that before the Cross the Twelve were preaching the same gospel which Paul preached at 1 Corinthians 15:1-5?

For some reason you failed to address that question.LOL

 

[Jacob]

The argument goes that two different gospels were preached during the Acts period. The verse you quoted was not written until after the Acts period was over.

Do you share the opinion of Nang that before the Cross the Twelve were preaching the same gospel which Paul preached at 1 Corinthians 15:1-5?

For some reason you failed to address that question.LOL

I don't know what you are laughing over. You can address Nang's post if you want. I was addressing yours. Perhaps you simply did not know that some present Peter as having differed from Paul. I don't believe he did. I presented my reason for that, the evidence: One of Peter's Letters. How do you know when Peter wrote it? Why would this fact, be it true that Peter wrote after Acts (the period, or perhaps after it was written?), be important to you? Why do you want to confirm different gospels if there is only one gospel and all were preaching it after Jesus told them all authority has been given to Him and to go and preach making disciples? It sounds like you have a certain version of what Paul was preaching, and believe he is the only one who knew the truth. He had his ministry... as did the rest. All of the same Spirit, the same God.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Why do you want to confirm different gospels if there is only one gospel and all were preaching it after Jesus told them all authority has been given to Him and to go and preach making disciples?

On the day of Pentecost Peter preached a gospel and the entire contents of his sermon can be found at Acts 2:14 through Acts 2:36. There Peter's words are recorded and there is no interruption in what he said. Men were being saved as a result of the gospel which he preached there and there is not one word in regard to the fact that Christ died for our sins.

Here Paul speaks of the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve" (1 Cor.15:1-5).

Search Peter's words at Acts 2:14 through Acts 2:36 and you will find no mention of the fact that "Christ died for our sins." But yet the gospel which he preached resulted in the salvation of all those who believed his gospel message.

If you cannot tell the difference between the gospel which Peter preached on the day of Pentecost and the gospel which Paul outlined at 2 Cornithians 15:1-5 then your understanding of spiritual things is very, very limited.

 

[Nang]

On the day of Pentecost Peter preached a gospel and the entire contents of his sermon can be found at Acts 2:14 through Acts 2:36. There Peter's words are recorded and there is no interruption in what he said. Men were being saved as a result of the gospel which he preached there and there is not one word in regard to the fact that Christ died for our sins.

Here Paul speaks of the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve" (1 Cor.15:1-5).

Search Peter's words at Acts 2:14 through Acts 2:36 and you will find no mention of the fact that "Christ died for our sins."

Acts 2:23 speaks of Christ crucified. Together with the Hebrew knowledge of O.T. Scriptures, the Jews would understand the necessity of His blood offering to remit sins.

But yet the gospel which he preached resulted in the salvation of all those who believed his gospel message.

If you cannot tell the difference between the gospel which Peter preached on the day of Pentecost and the gospel which Paul outlined at 2 Cornithians 15:1-5 then your understanding of spiritual things is very, very limited.

There is no difference . . . there is only one gospel message, and Jesus Himself taught what that message must contain.

Christ's commission to all the disciples to preach the Gospel, and the details of the message, according to Christ crucified, was recorded in Luke 24:44-49.