When obedience becomes rebellion

[genuineoriginal]

This is true, there will be no boasting in heaven, no one will say "I am here because I obeyed" it sounds foolish now, what will it sound like then

Foolish people have been taught to focus on whether they can save themselves through what they do.

The problem with that is that the Bible teaches that you can damn yourself through what you do.

Everyone that will end up in the lake of fire at the judgment will be there because of disobedience, none will end up there because of obedience.

 

[chair]

Just listen carefully to the title of this thread--- When obedience becomes rebellion.


Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

Good call on the verse

 

[genuineoriginal]

*
Faith without works is dead...but God requires righteous works, not dead works, when people come to Christ, when they turn that is repentance, that is the work God rewards...not the works of the law.

You seem to think that a single moment of repentance is all that God requires instead of a lifetime of righteousness.

If your response to the gospel is to begin to do works of righteousness or works of the law in order to be saved [or to stay saved] then you have not understood the gospel.

Stop looking at whether you can save yourself with your works.
Look at how you can damn yourself with your works.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.​

Again I say that to begin obeying laws as a means to righteousness

Obeying laws as a means to righteousness is the proper way for children in Christ to begin to learn about righteousness, since the law is our schoolmaster and many Christians have never learned what the schoolmaster teaches.

Galatians 3:24 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.​

Obeying the law is not an end, since you are expected to learn the principles and then apply them to your life when you leave the schoolmaster
If you are rebelling against the teachings of the schoolmaster, then you are stuck in unrighteousness.

It is like the Jews who would not enter the Promised land when God said for we have none of us kept the law, then when God said to go back they insisted on entering...they had disobedient hearts to whatever God said.

Beware of that

If you have a heart that is rebelling against the law that God gave, then you have a disobedient heart to whatever God said, just like the children of Israel you are referring to.

If we love Jesus we will keep His commands so shall we prove to be His discipleship

Salvation and discipleship are two things clear different, you can't even begin to think about obedience and discipleship until we are saved

People are called when they hear the Word.
Some will reject it and others will believe.
Those that believe will either repent and obey, or rebel against obeying.
Those that repent and obey are the ones that Jesus chooses to be written in the Book of Life, are given the Holy Spirit as a pledge that they will be saved in the coming salvation.
Those that repent and obey will either continue in their faith or fall from it.
Those that continue in their faith will not be blotted from the Book of Life.
Those that quench the Spirit and fall from the faith will have their names blotted out from the Book of Life if they remain in continuous rebellion.
Those that are still written in the Book of Life at the end of their life will receive salvation in the Resurrection of the Righteous.

Salvation is the end of faith, not the beginning.

1 Peter 1:9 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.​

 

[God's Truth]

You seem to think that a single moment of repentance is all that God requires instead of a lifetime of righteousness.


Stop looking at whether you can save yourself with your works.
Look at how you can damn yourself with your works.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.​

Obeying laws as a means to righteousness is the proper way for children in Christ to begin to learn about righteousness, since the law is our schoolmaster and many Christians have never learned what the schoolmaster teaches.

Galatians 3:24 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.​

Obeying the law is not an end, since you are expected to learn the principles and then apply them to your life when you leave the schoolmaster
If you are rebelling against the teachings of the schoolmaster, then you are stuck in unrighteousness.


If you have a heart that is rebelling against the law that God gave, then you have a disobedient heart to whatever God said, just like the children of Israel you are referring to.


People are called when they hear the Word.
Some will reject it and others will believe.
Those that believe will either repent and obey, or rebel against obeying.
Those that repent and obey are the ones that Jesus chooses to be written in the Book of Life, are given the Holy Spirit as a pledge that they will be saved in the coming salvation.
Those that repent and obey will either continue in their faith or fall from it.
Those that continue in their faith will not be blotted from the Book of Life.
Those that quench the Spirit and fall from the faith will have their names blotted out from the Book of Life if they remain in continuous rebellion.
Those that are still written in the Book of Life at the end of their life will receive salvation in the Resurrection of the Righteous.

Salvation is the end of faith, not the beginning.

1 Peter 1:9 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.​

This was so good to read.

 

[God's Truth]

Good call on the verse

Thanks, chair.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You seem to think that a single moment of repentance is all that God requires instead of a lifetime of righteousness.


Ah crookedness of heart, you've abandoned some glorious doctrines and exchanged them for chaff.

Well God will be faithful with you though you are unfaithful with Him, He said He would save you and He will.

You've forgotten some very basic gospel truths like Paul's new creature in Christ, old things passed away, ALL things became new. You were crucified, you were buried and you were raised to newness of life...born again.

You even have learned to deny His deity. It is all crookedness of heart, and although we be saved there is none of us who can be so sure that we stand that we may not fall.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Peter says we have RECIEVED the end of our faith even the salvation of our souls

 

[genuineoriginal]

you've abandoned some glorious doctrines and exchanged them for chaff.

I've abandoned the doctrines of men for the truth of scripture.

Well God will be faithful with you though you are unfaithful with Him, He said He would save you and He will.

Salvation is conditional, not unconditional.

You've forgotten some very basic gospel truths like Paul's new creature in Christ, old things passed away, ALL things became new. You were crucified, you were buried and you were raised to newness of life...born again.

Continue in the faith and keep going even through great tribulation so you can enter into the kingdom of God, like Paul said.

Acts 14:22 22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.​

You even have learned to deny His deity.

I do not deny the deity of Jesus the Messiah.
Do you deny that Jesus is the Son of God?

although we be saved there is none of us who can be so sure that we stand that we may not fall.

Matthew 24:13 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Peter says we have RECIEVED the end of our faith even the salvation of our souls

If the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul, then you will need to have faith until the end to receive salvation.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You have not listened to all the warnings of scripture. To abide in Christ, to hold fast to your first confidence, to keep the good profession.

I would not cross the street for the doctrines you now hold.

Bad doctrines begins with heart crookedness, something wrong in us that wants to keep God at a distance, so we erect these barriers of doubt and distrust [for that is what they amount to]

 

[Totton Linnet]

If the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul, then you will need to have faith until the end to receive salvation.

I live no longer I but Christ lives IN ME and the life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You have not listened to all the warnings of scripture. To abide in Christ, to hold fast to your first confidence, to keep the good profession.

I have listened to the warnings.

I would not cross the street for the doctrines you now hold.

I didn't find them across the street.
I found them on my knees and in the Bible.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You prolly fell to dozing and dreamed them up

 

[genuineoriginal]

You prolly fell to dozing and dreamed them up

Why would you think that is an insult?

Job 33:14-15 14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. 15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;​

 

[Totton Linnet]

Yah you never learned conditional salvation from God

 

[genuineoriginal]

Yah you never learned conditional salvation from God

Salvation has always been conditional.

What makes you think it is not?

 

[God's Truth]

I live no longer I but Christ lives IN ME and the life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.

How is Christ living in you if you are not obeying?

 

[God's Truth]

You have not listened to all the warnings of scripture. To abide in Christ, to hold fast to your first confidence, to keep the good profession.

I would not cross the street for the doctrines you now hold.

Bad doctrines begins with heart crookedness, something wrong in us that wants to keep God at a distance, so we erect these barriers of doubt and distrust [for that is what they amount to]

You claim it is distrustful to do what Jesus says. That sounds good and right to you how?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Salvation has always been conditional.

What makes you think it is not?

Conditional upon God's terms which is faith...you and your works will never be good enough


....it's what got you into trouble in the first place...it's what you repented of...it's what you have backslidden to

 

[genuineoriginal]

Conditional upon God's terms which is faith...

Yes. God gives salvation to those that please Him (Grace) by their faith.

you . . . will never be good enough

That is not for you to decide.

your works will never be good enough

I keep repeating that God cannot be obligated to save you no matter how good your works are.
This concept just doesn't seem to be accepted by people that have their minds polluted with the leaven of the Pharisees.
Clean out that leaven and think about what God requires of you: faith, hope, and love.
Without those, you will never be good enough, no matter how much you try.