When obedience becomes rebellion

[Totton Linnet]

Everybody but EVERYBODY has to eventually come clean, obedience is an aspiration but an aspiration only.

They usually start off like shackles

Pretending they have given up everything and are living the perfect Christian life of obedience to Jesu's commands. They never actually say that but it is implied inasmuch as they command us that we must and flog us when we don't.

Therefore

Obedience to commandments can never be a way to be saved, when we come to the vital subject of salvation, all idea of keeping laws and commandments must be totally set aside.

And this is exactly what God has done.

The handwriting which was against us has been nailed to the cross, God has proclaimed a NEW way to be saved, not by obeying commands but by simply trusting Jesus to save us.

When therefore streuthy and shackles and all the others of them come along preaching the necessity of obedience to Jesu's commands in order to be saved they are in rebellion to God, are enemies of the cross and serrvants of the devil.

THAT is why we oppose them so fiercely

They drive people away from Christ, people as are looking for salvation they come up against shackles and co and hear them say "you must obey Jesu's commands" and they are more HONEST than them for they KNOW they are unable to do it.

We open our arms to people who are coming, we tell them there are no obstacles, nothing to prevent them...Just come and BELIEVE and welcome.

 

[Robert Pate]

Jesus said that he came into the world to save sinners. Some don't qualify.

 

[jamie]

Obedience to commandments can never be a way to be saved...

Salvation is a gift ... simply a gift, but it is a gift that must be respected by those who aspire to the kingdom of God.

 

[Robert Pate]

Salvation is a gift ... simply a gift, but it is a gift that must be respected by those who aspire to the kingdom of God.

The only condition to be saved is to believe. Nothing about aspiring.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Obedience to commandments can never be a way to be saved

True.
There is no way to obligate God to save you by obedience to commandments.
You cannot please God through a rote obedience to His law and commandments, He says, "This people honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me."

when we come to the vital subject of salvation, all idea of keeping laws and commandments must be totally set aside.

False.
Rejection of God's law and commandments will earn you damnation.
You cannot please God through a faithless rejection of His law and commandments, He says, "Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness."

God only gives salvation to people that please Him by their faith, He says, "Your faith has saved you."

So, what are we to do to please God with our faith?

Matthew 22:37-39 37 Jesus said unto him, [JESUS]Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[/JESUS] 38 [JESUS]This is the first and great commandment.[/JESUS] 39 [JESUS]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[/JESUS]​

Romans 10:9 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.​

 

[Totton Linnet]

True.
There is no way to obligate God to save you by obedience to commandments.
You cannot please God through a rote obedience to His law and commandments, He says, "This people honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me."


False.
Rejection of God's law and commandments will earn you damnation.
You cannot please God through a faithless rejection of His law and commandments, He says, "Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness."

God only gives salvation to people that please Him by their faith, He says, "Your faith has saved you."

So, what are we to do to please God with our faith?

Matthew 22:37-39 37 Jesus said unto him, [JESUS]Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[/JESUS] 38 [JESUS]This is the first and great commandment.[/JESUS] 39 [JESUS]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[/JESUS]​

Romans 10:9 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.​

Only believe

Faith and lawkeeping are two different things, you speaking from both sides of your mouth Gen, first you say obeying commands will not do then you say we must.

I think you have a funny idea that God saves us because He sees something good in us.

You neither manage to love God as He said you shalt or to love your neighbour as yourself

 

[genuineoriginal]

Only believe

Belief without works is dead.
You cannot obligate God to save you through your empty beliefs.

Faith and lawkeeping are two different things, you speaking from both sides of your mouth Gen, first you say obeying commands will not do then you say we must.

You misunderstand because you were taught to misunderstand.

There is a difference between obeying the commandments as a way to obligate God and obeying the commandments because you love God and submit to Him.

John 14:15 15 [JESUS]If ye love me, keep my commandments.[/JESUS]​

If you don't keep His commandments, do you love God?

1 John 5:3 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.​

If you do not keep His commandments out of love, you really don't have faith at all.

 

[glorydaz]

Belief without works is dead.

Belief in the work of the Cross gives life. That's the work that matters. That's the work that saves.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Belief in the work of the Cross gives life. That's the work that matters. That's the work that saves.

Jesus went to the cross trusting that his Father would resurrect him.

So are you saying that trusting is work?

 

[God's Truth]

When obedience becomes rebellion
Everybody but EVERYBODY has to eventually come clean, obedience is an aspiration but an aspiration only.

Eventually come clean? When we come to Jesus to be saved, he cleans us of the sins we REPENT of doing.

They usually start off like shackles

Pretending they have given up everything and are living the perfect Christian life of obedience to Jesu's commands. They never actually say that but it is implied inasmuch as they command us that we must and flog us when we don't.

I do not flog anyone.
I do not pretend to obey; and even if I did pretend to obey, it would not change the truth that we have to obey. I am careful to obey so I will not be disqualified.

Therefore

Obedience to commandments can never be a way to be saved, when we come to the vital subject of salvation, all idea of keeping laws and commandments must be totally set aside.

Jesus’ words are Spirit and life. How do you think you will have the Spirit and life if you do not obey what Jesus says?

And this is exactly what God has done.

The handwriting which was against us has been nailed to the cross, God has proclaimed a NEW way to be saved, not by obeying commands but by simply trusting Jesus to save us.

Jesus did not come to earth to teach us what to do and then die and erase everything he taught.

Jesus came to earth to teach us the way of the New Covenant, and then he shed his blood for the New Covenant.

When therefore streuthy and shackles and all the others of them come along preaching the necessity of obedience to Jesu's commands in order to be saved they are in rebellion to God, are enemies of the cross and serrvants of the devil.

So when Jesus was on earth telling us to obey, those words became words people can use to do the devil’s work?

THAT is why we oppose them so fiercely

They drive people away from Christ, people as are looking for salvation they come up against shackles and co and hear them say "you must obey Jesu's commands" and they are more HONEST than them for they KNOW they are unable to do it.

Who cannot admit they are a sinner? Who cannot humble themselves? Who cannot confess and repent of their sins? Who cannot forgive others?

We open our arms to people who are coming, we tell them there are no obstacles, nothing to prevent them...Just come and BELIEVE and welcome.

It is not your arms they are seeking to comfort them, but God the Father’s.

 

[God's Truth]

Just listen carefully to the title of this thread--- When obedience becomes rebellion.


Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus said that he came into the world to save sinners. Some don't qualify.

All are sinners. All have to come admitting that if they want to be saved. That is part of humbling yourself.

 

[God's Truth]

Salvation is a gift ... simply a gift, but it is a gift that must be respected by those who aspire to the kingdom of God.

The gift is grace which means we do not have to do the purification/ceremonial works to make ourselves clean just to go to the temple to worship God.

Jesus' blood cleans us by our only having to have faith that it cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

Just imagine having to do various washings and sacrificing animals just to clean yourself because you sat where someone else sat who had a normal discharge.


Leviticus 15:32 These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen, for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who has sexual relations with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.


16 “ ‘When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 17 Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. 18 When a man has sexual relations with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both of them must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening. 19 “ ‘When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. 20 “ ‘Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Anyone who touches her bed will be unclean; they must wash their clothes and bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening. 22 Anyone who touches anything she sits on will be unclean; they must wash their clothes and bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, they will be unclean till evening.

28 “ ‘When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 30 The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge. 31 “ ‘You must keep the Israelites separate from things that make them unclean, so they will not die in their uncleanness for defiling my dwelling place, which is among them.’ ” 32 These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen, 33 for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who has sexual relations with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.


The Israelites had these rules and regulations for over 1,600 years.

This is the WORKS that no longer save.

Paul was not saying obeying no longer saves!

 

[God's Truth]

True.
There is no way to obligate God to save you by obedience to commandments.
You cannot please God through a rote obedience to His law and commandments, He says, "This people honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me."

That scripture about people honoring with their lips is about people speaking about what God wants but do not obey.

 

[God's Truth]

Only believe

Faith and lawkeeping are two different things, you speaking from both sides of your mouth Gen, first you say obeying commands will not do then you say we must.

I think you have a funny idea that God saves us because He sees something good in us.

You neither manage to love God as He said you shalt or to love your neighbour as yourself

Revelation 2:23
I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Belief without works is dead.
You cannot obligate God to save you through your empty beliefs.


You misunderstand because you were taught to misunderstand.

There is a difference between obeying the commandments as a way to obligate God and obeying the commandments because you love God and submit to Him.

John 14:15 15 [JESUS]If ye love me, keep my commandments.[/JESUS]​

If you don't keep His commandments, do you love God?

1 John 5:3 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.​

If you do not keep His commandments out of love, you really don't have faith at all.

*
Faith without works is dead...but God requires righteous works, not dead works, when people come to Christ, when they turn that is repentance, that is the work God rewards...not the works of the law.

For this is the love of God [not the love of man] that we keep His commands and His commands are not grevious For whatever is born of God overcometh the world and THIS IS the victory that overcometh the world EVEN OUR FAITH

Who is he that overcometh the world but he that BELIEVETH that Jesus is the Son of God.

If your response to the gospel is to begin to do works of righteousness or works of the law in order to be saved [or to stay saved] then you have not understood the gospel.

I must confess I have been dismayed this last year seeing the dodgey stuff YOU have allowed yourself to be taught....I had thought better of you.

If you do not understand that Grace is what James calls the royal law and is far above any keeping of the law you have missed out.

Again I say that to begin obeying laws as a means to righteousness is disobedient for God has shown us the right way to be saved. It is like the Jews who would not enter the Promised land when God said for we have none of us kept the law, then when God said to go back they insisted on entering...they had disobedient hearts to whatever God said.

Beware of that

If we love Jesus we will keep His commands so shall we prove to be His discipleship

Salvation and discipleship are two things clear different, you can't even begin to think about obedience and discipleship until we are saved

 

[God's Truth]

*
Faith without works is dead...but God require righteous works, not dead works, when people come to Christ, when they turn that is repentance, that is the work God rewards...not the works of the law.

If your response to the gospel is to begin to do works of righteousness or works of the law in order to be saved [or to stay saved] then you have not understood the gospel.

I must confess I have been dismayed this last year seeing the dodgey stuff YOU have allowed yourself to be taught....I had thought better of you.

If you do not understand that Grace is what James calls the royal law and is far above any keeping of the law you have missed out.

Again I say that to begin obeying laws as a means to righteousness is disobedient for God has shown us the right way to be saved. It is like the Jews who would not enter the Promised land when God said

James was speaking of the ROYAL LAW OF LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Love is not harming your neighbor that is how we love our neighbors, we do no harm to them.

If you do not harm your neighbor by not murdering your neighbor, it is good and you have obeyed a commandment of do not murder.

If you do not harm your neighbor by committing adultery with your neighbor's wife, then you have obeyed another commandment.

If you do not harm your neighbor so you do not bear false witness against your neighbor, you have done right and obeyed yet another command.

If you STEAL from your neighbor, you have HARMED your neighbor, AND NOW YOU ARE GUILTY OF BREAKING THE WHOLE ROYAL LAW OF LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Do you understand now?

 

[God's Truth]

Again I say that to begin obeying laws as a means to righteousness is disobedient for God has shown us the right way to be saved. It is like the Jews who would not enter the Promised land when God said

1 Corinthians 10

Warnings From Israel’s History

1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.” 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9 We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel. 11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus went to the cross trusting that his Father would resurrect him.

So are you saying that trusting is work?

No. Why would you think that?

 

[God's Truth]

Of course, trusting is a work. It is a light and easy non burdensome work.