What would the Romans have done at Masada if...

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dialm

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Let's suppose that Masada is correct. Then we have

If you don't like the current president then all republicans should?

If you don't like school you should?

This is totally stupid. Just like the people on top of Masada. Just like anyone who does such a thing no matter what the reason. Just like those who take up for the people of Masada.
 
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dialm

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We can't leave this at stupid. We need to know why.

Suicide was an acceptable option in the pagan world. Therefore suicide can be a sign just like other forms of violence.

You want to know how pagan society is? How acceptable is the practice of suicide?

The Romans thought the practice was honorable. They were deceived. There is no honor in suicide. None whatsoever.

Those people on Masada were despicable. Thier plan went wrong and they ran out of options. They had no honor and they had no wisdom. They did not come from a pagan society. The Jewish people back then had a knowledge of God. It was not complete knowledge but it was enough to guide anyone away from Paganism.

What we have to do is figure out a way to stop violence. Honesty is a good starting place.
 
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dialm

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Here is a nice study

Compare what the Romans would have done to Masada with what the Romans did do to the Christians.

Ah, I think the Masada people wouldn't fair do well. Probably they are burning for what they did. And all is well.
 
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lifeguard at the cement pond
dialm said:
The average height of the male Isrealite at the time was about 4 feet.
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:freak:

Spoiler
ttyvr57-41145267373.jpeg
 
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aikido7

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dialm said:
The only thing the Romans were going to do was execute a couple leaders then sell the followers into slavery. That was a normal process. Suicide was a ridiculous response. After all, Isreal began as a slave nation. They were used to it. And the hand full of leaders were going to die anyway.

Unless the Masadites were more Roman then we are led to believe. Rome prescribed suicide in the face of defeat. By committing suicide the Masadites were saying how Roman they were.
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A sizable group of Jewish men, women and children were prepared to take their own lives with knives in protest to Pontius Pilate following a substitution of Jewish symbols for the Roman Empire's symbol.

Pilate, amazingly, backed down. He was one prelate who didn't give up usually and was well-attested to being a brutal, violent leader.
 
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Omniskeptical

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aikido7 said:
A sizable group of Jewish men, women and children were prepared to take their own lives with knives in protest to Pontius Pilate following a substitution of Jewish symbols for the Roman Empire's symbol.

Pilate, amazingly, backed down. He was one prelate who didn't give up usually and was well-attested to being a brutal, violent leader.
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True, but I don't believe he drank Israelite rebel blood. Even in the gospels, he is accounted as a jerk at best.
 
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aikido7

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dialm said:
The Masada account is recorded history. What they did was too first rebel against Rome then they rebelled against Jerusalem They had their reasons for rebelling.

The Roman theory of governing is also recorded history. To conquer they used the carrot and stick approach. First they offered friendship. If rejected they would force the friendship. Very few nations got the privilege of rejecting Roman friendship. Germany and Scotland were two. Israel was a good friend to Rome for many years. Actually Masada was built to Roman specifications just like King Herod's Temple. Why the Romans were so impressed by the Temple that they just simply had to have it. You can visit King Herrod's Temple in Rome today. Everyone there knows where the Collisium is located. All you have to do is ask.
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You are generally right. There were Jews who basically went along with Roman rule.

I found it very enlightening that sayings such as "divine," "born of a virgin," "Savior of the World," etc. were first applied to Caesar. These titles were carved into the buildings and temples and stamped on the coins.

It was a revolutionary act--high treason--to apply these titles to Jesus as well.

Jesus's notion of the Kingdom of God was to introduce the idea of how the world would be with God on the throne instead of Caesar.
 
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Wow the crazy in this thread is thick. 4-foot tall Israelites? The Roman Coliseum as a Jewish temple?

Dial M for... madness?
 
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Omniskeptical

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aikido7 said:
To me, historical context is essential in figuring out what the underlying causes are as far as politics, religion and culture are concerned.
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I think you are wrong about savior of the world, and so called tales of the virgin birth of Caesar. Caesars was also considered rescuers or salvations. Soter being salvation; and soterios being actual savior. The Judah were going to get what was coming to them for short-changing Rome, and insulting their god, YHWH.
 
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dialm said:
With all do respect bybee,

So what?

It costs money to build roads and such. Israel had to pay just like everyone else. It was not a nation of elites. The average height of the male Isrealite at the time was about 4 feet. They couldn't fight their way out of a paper sack. They were constantly crying out for someone to save them. Then, when Savior finally showed up they stabbed Him in the back.

Let's get real just before I get booted out.

Israel was a slave nation. There was no reason to commit suicide over that. Moses even said to choose life so that God would have people like He wanted.

The Masadites didn't have the spine to accept The Will Of GOD.

That is the meaning of suicide in a nut shell. We don't need Josephus to figure that out.
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No one is 4 feet tall when genetically normal. You major growth abnormalities and birth defects. I will grant you that they may easily have been 5 foot freckly white people, but 4 feet sounds weird and stupid.
 
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dialm

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You don't like my foolishness and I don't like yours.

Christians do not commit suicude. Sorry about your luck.
 
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aikido7

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Omniskeptical said:
I think you are wrong about savior of the world, and so called tales of the virgin birth of Caesar. Caesars was also considered rescuers or salvations. Soter being salvation; and soterios being actual savior. The Judah were going to get what was coming to them for short-changing Rome, and insulting their god, YHWH.
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There is an identifiable anti-imperial strain throughout the Gospels, beginning with Paul in the 50s.

Because of Jesus, the powers and principalities of this world--the Domination System--does not have the last word.

The early Christians knew exactly what they were doing when the appropriated the Empire's language for Jesus.

The early Christian theologian, Justin Martyr, would carry on written arguments with certain pagan philosophers in Rome. Both sides accepted virgin births as part of first-century reality. But the Romans claimed that a peasant nobody like Jesus was not of royal birth and so his claim to a virgin birth made no sense to the pagan argument.

The virgin birth speaks to the importance of Caesar and Jesus. It does not speak to the biology of their earthly mothers.
 
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dialm

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The World in America has finally gathered enough courage to make frontal assaults in public on Christians. We shouldn't be surprised. And what is happening is not because of something we did or did not do. Our response as Christians is the deciding factor.

The world like the Roman Empire is inferior to the Kingdom of Christ. The world cannot remain and even now is in its death throws.
 
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aikido7

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dialm said:
The people on Masada were Jews.
Jews commit suicide.

Christians do not commit suicide.
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That is a blanket statement.
It is not true. Two people in my church killed themselves. A Christian struggling with problems or depression and kills themselves is still a Christian.
 
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