What the Law and the Bible say about Homosexuality.

[steko]

The "millennium" is now.

It appears very clearly that we are nearly twenty years past the second millennium since Christ was here.

And... according to the text, Rev 20 which refers to the one thousand year reign of Christ on this earth, follows Rev 19 which refers to the second coming of Christ to this earth.

Jesus Christ reigns now.

According to the text, Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father in the Father's throne and is expecting 'til His enemies be made His footstool.
Then, The LORD shall send the rod of His strength out of Zion, and He will rule in the midst of His enemies and then Christ who sat at YHVH's right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

There is only one body of Christ, and it consists of regenerated Jews and Gentiles.

True!

Judgment Day will occur after the general and final resurrection.

Yes, the final white throne judgement of all the 'dead' according to their works.

 

[Jacob]

The Millennial Kingdom is when Jesus reigns as the King of Israel.

I believe that He already is King. He spoke of His Kingdom in the present before He died.

John 18:36 NASB - 36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."​

He is presently at the right hand of God, but I am working on if He is ruling and reigning.

Matthew 26:64 NASB - 64 Jesus said to him, "You have said it [yourself;] nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."​

Israel's Kingdom gospel (i.e. the previous dispensation, which Christ lived and taught under.) was not ended with the stoning of Stephen but merely put in abeyance. God is not finished with Israel and will return to her after the fullness of the gentiles has come in. (Romans 11:25-27)

I do not know what you mean by referring to Stephen's stoning here. I remember that when I was a dispensationalist I had a reason for getting hung up on something with Stephen, but that may not be what you are pointing to and I have no difficultly with it at present. I don't see this changing as I don't know what it even was any more. Suffice it to say if you are asking about if the kingdom came many go to when Jesus prayed or cried over Jerusalem and say that the coming of the kingdom that had been promised was then delayed.

In other words, the law, which you are so obsessed with, will be fully restored and in force (minus the sacrificial laws which have been fulfilled in Christ) during the Millennium. Thus, Israel's system of judges will be in place.

You aren't talking about a temple with sacrifice, which is okay for the Millennium if you don't associate a coming temple with it, but many do. I don't know what to think about it. So I simply recognize that you are saying something different.

Judges. Elders. Whatever I don't know I don't know and I can say that I don't know. Either? The Law? Some people believe that the Law will come back for the Jews with Christ. It is an idea of dispensationalists.

We, that is you and I and those who are in Christ, will not be doing any judging of anyone during the Millennium. The Millennium has to do with Israel, not the Body of Christ. The judging we will be doing (i.e. of angels and of the whole world (1 Corinthians 6:2-3) will be on judgment day which doesn't happen until after the Millennium.

I am of the body of Christ. I also observe Torah as a proselyte to or of Israel. Do you believe that a person can become a proselyte after Christ died on the cross or rose from the dead?

Clete

I have thought recently that my life is a lot less about observing the Law or an identity as a Jew, but in looking for work at my interview today I said that I am Jewish (I was wearing tzitzit and a kippah in addition to my regular clothing) for the purpose of the weekly Sabbath and Jewish Holy Days (not being able to work then), though I was simply saying it not necessarily saying it for that purpose without meaning, though I wondered even wearing what I was if it is basically like lying. A proselyte is a proselyte or a Jew or an Israelite.

Revelation 2:9 NASB - 9 'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9 NASB - 9 'Behold, I will cause [those] of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie--I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and [make them] know that I have loved you.​

Here is the verse about proselytes. Is a resident alien a proselyte? Do they live in the land only? Such that the word proselyte has been associated with synagogues which I presume may have been outside of the land of Israel (I haven't checked this, I think I might remember something though).

Exodus 20:10 NASB - 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; [in it] you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

Exodus 23:12 NASB - 12 "Six days you are to do your work, but on the seventh day you shall cease [from labor] so that your ox and your donkey may rest, and the son of your female slave, as well as your stranger, may refresh themselves.

Exodus 12:19, 48 NASB - 19 'Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether [he is] an alien or a native of the land. ... 48 "But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it.

Deuteronomy 5:14 NASB - 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; [in it] you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.

Deuteronomy 16:11-14 NASB - 11 and you shall rejoice before the LORD your God, you and your son and your daughter and your male and female servants and the Levite who is in your town, and the stranger and the orphan and the widow who are in your midst, in the place where the LORD your God chooses to establish His name. 12 "You shall remember that you were a slave in Egypt, and you shall be careful to observe these statutes. 13 "You shall celebrate the Feast of Booths seven days after you have gathered in from your threshing floor and your wine vat; 14 and you shall rejoice in your feast, you and your son and your daughter and your male and female servants and the Levite and the stranger and the orphan and the widow who are in your towns.​

Jacob

 

[Jacob]

The "millennium" is now.

Jesus Christ reigns now.

Can you show this from scripture?

There is only one body of Christ, and it consists of regenerated Jews and Gentiles.

Judgment Day will occur after the general and final resurrection. John 6:26-29

Is that all there is?

 

[Jacob]

Justice is not defined by the law (i.e. the law of Moses) but rather the other way around. It was just to execute murders before Moses ever existed and has been commanded by God since Noah landed the arc.

Okay. God created in His image long before that.

It is not immoral to commit purjery because the Law says, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor." That's not why its wrong.

Why is it wrong?

Homosexuality is not immoral because the law says not to be a pervert. That just is not why it's wrong!

Why is it wrong? I see the scriptures about how it is wrong.

Such things are wrong because they leed to death. All things immoral are immoral because they lead to death. God's moral standard is life. That which is proper to life is the good; that which negates, opposes or destroys it is the evil. Really simple and easy to understand.

It can be wrong that way, but I was wondering about the perjury one if you have a scripture that says that it is wrong.

Deuteronomy 30:15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

Proverbs 11:19 As righteousness leads to life, So he who pursues evil pursues it to his own death.

Proverbs 12:28 In the way of righteousness is life, And in its pathway there is no death.​

Shalom.

Clete

Jacob

 

[Nang]

It appears very clearly that we are nearly twenty years past the second millennium since Christ was here.

The “millennium” is the entire period between the first coming of Christ and His second return at the end of time.

And... according to the text, Rev 20 which refers to the one thousand year reign of Christ on this earth, follows Rev 19 which refers to the second coming of Christ to this earth.

And I know you are educated enough to know church history has substantiated my view which has been held and confessed for centuries as orthodox, and that theologians know better than not to attempt to interpret Revelation chronologically or literally.

 

[Nang]

Can you show this from scripture?
Is that all there is?

Revelation 20:4-15

 

[Jacob]

Revelation 20:4-15

Do you believe that the first resurrection has already occurred?

6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.​

To reign with... when does this occur?

 

[JudgeRightly]

The “millennium” is the entire period between the first coming of Christ and His second return at the end of time.

Sorry, but you don't get to redefine words just to suit your beliefs.

Millennium - 1. a period of a thousand years, especially when calculated from the traditional date of the birth of Christ.
2. an anniversary of a thousand years.

It's been nearly TWO millennium since Christ died, which means that your position doesn't fit reality.

In other words, you're wrong.

And I know you are educated enough to know church history has substantiated my view which has been held and confessed for centuries as orthodox, and that theologians know better than not to attempt to interpret Revelation chronologically or literally.

This is an appeal to tradition, a logical fallacy.

 

[Nang]

Do you believe that the first resurrection has already occurred?

6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.​

To reign with... when does this occur?

Google “amillenialism.”

It is a legitimate and historical eschatological view.

 

[Right Divider]

Google “amillenialism.”

It is a legitimate and historical eschatological view.

No, it is not. It is a fantasy like so many others.

 

[Jacob]

Google “amillenialism.”

It is a legitimate and historical eschatological view.

Right. But we have to have a conversation. The question I asked you is a conversation point. Just talking about different views of 1000 years doesn't answer the question or questions about what happens during this time, whether by the different views or by scripture or scripture with the view.

 

[Nang]

Right. But we have to have a conversation. The question I asked you is a conversation point. Just talking about different views of 1000 years doesn't answer the question or questions about what happens during this time, whether by the different views or by scripture or scripture with the view.

O.K. We can converse the subject. I just wanted to let you know it is a verified subject and respected doctrine held amongst Christians throughout the time period we can converse about.

It is not just my opinion, invention, nor "fantasy."

You asked: Do you believe that the first resurrection has already occurred?

I believe and it is taught that Christians souls first resurrect to be with the Lord upon their death. II Corinthians 5:1-8 The Christians bodies sleep in the grave, until the universal (second) resurrection on the last day, when bodies and souls will be reunited and glorified. John 5:25-29

Note:

According to Holy Scripture, believers experience two resurrections but only one death.

Unbelievers will experience only the one final resurrection, but are consigned to suffer two deaths. Rev. 20:4-6

You also asked: To reign with... when does this occur?

Of course the Son of God has always reigned as God, but to answer specifically to this verse, speaking of these present days, Jesus Christ has reigned at the right hand of the Father since His bodily resurrection unto glory. He provides believers' access to the Father in Heaven. That is why Christians pray in and through His Name. He is our Mediator and Advocate throughout the length of our physical, regenerate lives amongst this world.

 

[Jacob]

O.K. We can converse the subject. I just wanted to let you know it is a verified subject and respected doctrine held amongst Christians throughout the time period we can converse about.

It is not just my opinion, invention, nor "fantasy."

You asked: Do you believe that the first resurrection has already occurred?

I believe and it is taught that Christians souls first resurrect to be with the Lord upon their death. II Corinthians 5:1-8 The Christians bodies sleep in the grave, until the universal (second) resurrection on the last day, when bodies and souls will be reunited and glorified. John 5:25-29

Note:

According to Holy Scripture, believers experience two resurrections but only one death.

Unbelievers will experience only the one final resurrection, but are consigned to suffer two deaths. Rev. 20:4-6

You also asked: To reign with... when does this occur?

Of course the Son of God has always reigned as God, but to answer specifically to this verse, speaking of these present days, Jesus Christ has reigned at the right hand of the Father since His bodily resurrection unto glory. He provides believers' access to the Father in Heaven. That is why Christians pray in and through His Name. He is our Mediator and Advocate throughout the length of our physical, regenerate lives amongst this world.

Do you believe that Christians are already reigning and how can you show it from scripture if you do?

I don't know that I have been resurrected yet. Two resurrections is difficult to see for my future.

I am born again. But I do not count that as a resurrection.

 

[Nang]

Do you believe that Christians are already reigning and how can you show it from scripture if you do?

Yes I do because believers have been given the "keys of the kingdom" (the authority and power of the gospel message) from Jesus Christ. Matthew 16:18-19

I don't know that I have been resurrected yet. Two resurrections is difficult to see for my future.



I am born again. But I do not count that as a resurrection.

Being born again (regenerated to life and indwelt by the Holy Spirit) is God's guarantee and a down payment (Ephesians 1:12-14) of the promise of the first resurrection upon their physical death. John 11:25-26

 

[JudgeRightly]

Google “amillenialism.”

It is a legitimate and historical eschatological view.

No, it is not. It is a fantasy like so many others.

Right. But we have to have a conversation. The question I asked you is a conversation point. Just talking about different views of 1000 years doesn't answer the question or questions about what happens during this time, whether by the different views or by scripture or scripture with the view.

O.K. We can converse the subject. I just wanted to let you know it is a verified subject and respected doctrine held amongst Christians throughout the time period we can converse about.

It is not just my opinion, invention, nor "fantasy."

You asked: Do you believe that the first resurrection has already occurred?

I believe and it is taught that Christians souls first resurrect to be with the Lord upon their death. II Corinthians 5:1-8 The Christians bodies sleep in the grave, until the universal (second) resurrection on the last day, when bodies and souls will be reunited and glorified. John 5:25-29

Note:

According to Holy Scripture, believers experience two resurrections but only one death.

Unbelievers will experience only the one final resurrection, but are consigned to suffer two deaths. Rev. 20:4-6

You also asked: To reign with... when does this occur?

Of course the Son of God has always reigned as God, but to answer specifically to this verse, speaking of these present days, Jesus Christ has reigned at the right hand of the Father since His bodily resurrection unto glory. He provides believers' access to the Father in Heaven. That is why Christians pray in and through His Name. He is our Mediator and Advocate throughout the length of our physical, regenerate lives amongst this world.

Do you believe that Christians are already reigning and how can you show it from scripture if you do?

I don't know that I have been resurrected yet. Two resurrections is difficult to see for my future.

I am born again. But I do not count that as a resurrection.

Yes I do because believers have been given the "keys of the kingdom" (the authority and power of the gospel message) from Jesus Christ. Matthew 16:18-19



Being born again (regenerated to life and indwelt by the Holy Spirit) is God's guarantee and a down payment (Ephesians 1:12-14) of the promise of the first resurrection upon their physical death. John 11:25-26

Please take this discussion to another thread.

This thread is about the Law and what it says about homosexuality.

 

[Jacob]

Yes I do because believers have been given the "keys of the kingdom" (the authority and power of the gospel message) from Jesus Christ. Matthew 16:18-19

Do you remember the ministry of the disciples/apostles while Jesus was engaging in His earthly ministry? What about James and John the Sons of Thunder (the sons of Zebedee)? Because they asked about sitting at Jesus' right and left hand in His glory.

Mark 10
The Request of James and John
(Matthew 20:20-28)

35 Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to Jesus and declared, “Teacher, we want You to do for us whatever we ask.”

36 “What do you want Me to do for you?” He inquired.

37 They answered, “Grant that one of us may sit at Your right hand and the other at Your left in Your glory.”

38 “You do not know what you are asking,” Jesus replied. “Can you drink the cup I will drink, or be baptized with the baptism I will undergo?”

39 “We can,” the brothers answered.

“You will drink the cup that I drink,” Jesus said, “and you will be baptized with the baptism that I undergo. 40 But to sit at My right or left is not Mine to grant. These seats belong to those for whom they have been prepared.”

41 When the ten heard about this, they became indignant with James and John. 42 So Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their superiors exercise authority over them. 43 But it shall not be this way among you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first must be the slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”
​

Being born again (regenerated to life and indwelt by the Holy Spirit) is God's guarantee and a down payment (Ephesians 1:12-14) of the promise of the first resurrection upon their physical death. John 11:25-26

Then what is the second resurrection? Your words are confused. When you were saying that an individual would experience two resurrections rather than a fact that two resurrections exist. Or, what are you saying?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Do you remember the ministry of the disciples/apostles while Jesus was engaging in His earthly ministry? What about James and John the Sons of Thunder (the sons of Zebedee)? Because they asked about sitting at Jesus' right and left hand in His glory.

Mark 10
The Request of James and John
(Matthew 20:20-28)

35 Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to Jesus and declared, “Teacher, we want You to do for us whatever we ask.”

36 “What do you want Me to do for you?” He inquired.

37 They answered, “Grant that one of us may sit at Your right hand and the other at Your left in Your glory.”

38 “You do not know what you are asking,” Jesus replied. “Can you drink the cup I will drink, or be baptized with the baptism I will undergo?”

39 “We can,” the brothers answered.

“You will drink the cup that I drink,” Jesus said, “and you will be baptized with the baptism that I undergo. 40 But to sit at My right or left is not Mine to grant. These seats belong to those for whom they have been prepared.”

41 When the ten heard about this, they became indignant with James and John. 42 So Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their superiors exercise authority over them. 43 But it shall not be this way among you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first must be the slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”
​

Then what is the second resurrection? Your words are confused. When you were saying that an individual would experience two resurrections rather than a fact that two resurrections exist. Or, what are you saying?

:readthis:

Please take this discussion to another thread.

This thread is about the Law and what it says about homosexuality.

 

[Jacob]

Please take this discussion to another thread.

This thread is about the Law and what it says about homosexuality.

Except that homosexuals struggle with this, the first resurrection or the different resurrections. However, your request is warranted. I wish the discussion was in a different thread. Certainly our deviation from the topic at hand would warrant such a move. In my personal experience some people relate a resurrection to something sexual, which is sick and might not be a homosexual thing.

 

[Jacob]

:readthis:

TY

 

[Jacob]

What the Law and the Bible say about Homosexuality.

What the Law and the Bible say about Homosexuality.

"the Law"

is

the Torah (the Law) and God's Law the Law of Moses and law in general such as of a particular land or nation. In particular I have an interest in United States Law or American Law.

The Bible is the 66 Book Canon of Scripture.

Homosexuality is a subject discussed in the Bible for which there are commandments beginning from the Law (the Torah) and found also throughout the rest of the Bible. It is also discussed among those who know Law, sinners and homosexuals, and in politics by all kinds of people including those against homosexuality and those who practice it.