What say you? Is the Bride the same as the body of Christ?

[glorydaz]

He sure does, that is why He gave us freedom from sin.
But remember that He hates sinners, as it is written in Psalm 5:5..."The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Where is your scripture on "freedom from sin"?

 

[Hoping]

He might guess.

Depending on which route one takes to answer someone else, there is no way to tell.
If one just clicks on the "bell" (upper right) you can't tell which "forum" you are in.
But if you go through "Home", and then "New posts" route, there is a tiny blue footer that does inform you which "forum" you are in.

 

[glorydaz]

Depending on which route one takes to answer someone else, there is no way to tell.
If one just clicks on the "bell" (upper right) you can't tell which "forum" you are in.
But if you go through "Home", and then "New posts" route, there is a tiny blue footer that does inform you which "forum" you are in.

My comment was a joke.

 

[Hoping]

Where is your scripture on "freedom from sin"?

Rom 6:6-7 is the most direct..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
Also..."But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:39)
Also..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Also...“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)
There are more if you are interested...(I hope)

 

[Hoping]

My comment was a joke.

OK, but it did cause me to research it out a bit.

 

[glorydaz]

Rom 6:6-7 is the most direct..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

The above is the only verse that applies to us, and what do you think that actually means?

Also..."But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:39)
Also..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Also...“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)
There are more if you are interested...(I hope)

These verses don't apply to us. They are for the tribulation saints.

 

[Hoping]

The above is the only verse that applies to us, and what do you think that actually means?

They all apply to anyone in Christ.
It means, in context with the beginning of Rom 6, that those "immersed" into Christ and into His death and burial by water baptism are partakers of that death. Thereby killing the old man and bringing forth a new creature with our resurrection from Christ's grave.
We were killed with Christ and raised with Him to walk in newness of life...if we are (water) baptized into Christ and into His death.

These verses don't apply to us. They are for the tribulation saints.

They do apply to us.
Do these verses apply to us?
"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Eph 2:1-3)
"Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." (Phil 3:15)
"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)

What is your definition of "tribulation saints"?

 

[glorydaz]

They all apply to anyone in Christ.
It means, in context with the beginning of Rom 6, that those "immersed" into Christ and into His death and burial by water baptism are partakers of that death. Thereby killing the old man and bringing forth a new creature with our resurrection from Christ's grave.
We were killed with Christ and raised with Him to walk in newness of life...if we are (water) baptized into Christ and into His death.

Okay, never mind.

They do apply to us.
Do these verses apply to us?
"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Eph 2:1-3)
"Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." (Phil 3:15)
"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)

What is your definition of "tribulation saints"?

Jewish believers who will go through the tribulation while awaiting their Messiah.

 

[Hoping]

Okay, never mind.


Jewish believers who will go through the tribulation while awaiting their Messiah.

Can you point out a few scriptures that make that point?
I don't see why you think the Gentile believers won't suffer too.
Anyone who won't take the mark of the beast will suffer.

 

[glorydaz]

Can you point out a few scriptures that make that point?
I don't see why you think the Gentile believers won't suffer too.
Anyone who won't take the mark of the beast will suffer.

The Church of God (comprised of Jews and Gentiles) is not appointed to wrath.
The church will be raptured before the antichrist comes to power.

Plenty of verses, but so far, you and many others choose to ignore them.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Can you point out a few scriptures that make that point?
I don't see why you think the Gentile believers won't suffer too.
Anyone who won't take the mark of the beast will suffer.

Christians will have been "caught up" prior to the Tribulation.

If this were not the case, Paul wouldn't have told us to "comfort another with these words":

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.Therefore comfort one another with these words. - 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Thessalonians4:13-18&version=NKJV

Contrast that with the warning for Israel, who WILL go through the tribulation:

“Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out.And when you go into a household, greet it.If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues.You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles.But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak;for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.“Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. - Matthew 10:11-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew10:11-23&version=NKJV

Not much of a comfort, is it?

 

[Hoping]

The Church of God (comprised of Jews and Gentiles) is not appointed to wrath.
The church will be raptured before the antichrist comes to power.

Plenty of verses, but so far, you and many others choose to ignore them.

Please supply one that we can discuss.

 

[Hoping]

Christians will have been "caught up" prior to the Tribulation.

If this were not the case, Paul wouldn't have told us to "comfort another with these words":

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.Therefore comfort one another with these words. - 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Thessalonians4:13-18&version=NKJV

Contrast that with the warning for Israel, who WILL go through the tribulation:

“Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. And when you go into a household, greet it. If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city! “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. - Matthew 10:11-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew10:11-23&version=NKJV

Not much of a comfort, is it?

What I see are similarities.
Endure faithfully until the end and you will be saved at the coming of the Lord.

 

[Arial]

These verses don't apply to us. They are for the tribulation saints.

Interesting. Can you support this statement for us?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Interesting. Can you support this statement for us?

Hebrews: Full title of the book is "The Epistle to the Hebrews"
1 Peter: See 1:1-2; 2:4-12; 5:1-4; all of which are references to Israel, their culture, or speaking as if to Israel in an "us vs them" mindset compared to the Gentiles
2 Peter: See 3:1; 2 Peter is written to the same group as 1 Peter.

 

[Arial]

Hebrews: Full title of the book is "The Epistle to the Hebrews"

That does not mean that only applied to the Hebrews. Does Ephesians apply only to the Christians at Ephesus etc?

These verses don't apply to us. They are for the tribulation saints.

This was the statement I ask GD to support. All you gave me was the scriptures you interpret as some whole other thing. I understand that. But none of them show me that they claim to be for the tribulation saints.

 

[Idolater]

That does not mean that only applied to the Hebrews. Does Ephesians apply only to the Christians at Ephesus etc?

Right. Do Titus and 1st & 2nd Timothy only apply to those men? Or just to bishops? When we read those letters, are we reading 'somebody else's mail'?

 

[glorydaz]

That does not mean that only applied to the Hebrews. Does Ephesians apply only to the Christians at Ephesus etc?

Hebrews was written to the Jews. There is a lot of good stuff for us to learn from that book, but it is not written to us.

This was the statement I ask GD to support. All you gave me was the scriptures you interpret as some whole other thing. I understand that. But none of them show me that they claim to be for the tribulation saints.

If you'd ever slow down enough to listen, you'd find out you've been shown this already.....over and over, but you can't see.

The Jews at the time these letters were written were expecting the Kingdom to come at any moment.
It has been postponed, but their message will apply to tribulations saints even in the end days. Thus they must endure to the end.

 

[Arial]

Hebrews was written to the Jews. There is a lot of good stuff for us to learn from that book, but it is not written to us.

None of the Bible was written to us.

If you'd ever slow down enough to listen, you'd find out you've been shown this already.....over and over, but you can't see.

The Jews at the time these letters were written were expecting the Kingdom to come at any moment.
It has been postponed, but their message will apply to tribulations saints even in the end days. Thus they must endure to the end.

You're right. I don't see it. If it was there, I would. If you could read without the indoctrination, you would see it is manufactured then placed into the text.
Over and out. Not going around that mulberry bush again.

 

[JudgeRightly]

That does not mean that only applied to the Hebrews.

It DOES mean that it was written "to the Hebrews." AKA Israel.

Does Ephesians apply only to the Christians at Ephesus etc?

It means that Ephesians was written *gasp!* to the Christians in Ephesus.

This was the statement I ask GD to support. All you gave me was the scriptures you interpret as some whole other thing.

You asked how we know that those verses were for the tribulation saints. The Tribulation saints are part of Israel, and the post I made shows you clearly why that is the case. It wasn't just a claim, it was an argument for my position.

I understand that. But none of them show me that they claim to be for the tribulation saints.

Israel will go through the Great Tribulation, while Christians will have been caught up.

Ergo, any saints that exist on earth must be of Israel.

Scripture shows that the verses quoted were for Israel, which is consistent with the above conclusion.