What is your answer to "The Race Problem"?

[PureX]

You sound a wee bit angry at wealthy white men? Why?

I'm not angry at all. I'm simply pointing out that they control everything. Our culture, our economy, our government, and the circumstances of much of our lives. So if we are having problems with racism, sexism, and economic exploitation and ostracism; and we are, then we should stop blaming it on the people who HAVE THE LEAST CONTROL over their own lives. And start blaming it on the people who have the most. And in the Unites States, those people are wealthy white men. It has always been thus.

 

[Traditio]

Wow. just wow. Ever heard of a scoring Rubric?

You mean me writing a list of things that I expect my students to know? That may or may not match up with what my students actually produced. Don't get me wrong. I know what I talked about in my lectures. What did my students actually get from it? Don't know.

If I write a scoring rubric, there's a chance that all of my students might fail, or all of my students might get straight As (neither of which, to my mind, is a reasonable alternative). I mean, implicitly, there is something like a "scoring rubric" that I have in mind. If I said A, but the student didn't talk about A, then the student has deviated from the ideal. That doesn't mean that his or her grade should suffer, though. Maybe nobody got that point.

The problem, Alate_One, is that you simply have no concept of prudence. Human beings don't live and breathe in universals. They live and breath in and deal with particular circumstances.

How does a student know what is "better" if you don't tell them?

I do. The ideal is what I wrote in my lectures, talked about in class, made them read in the books, and wrote either in my general commentary on the papers for the whole class or in the particular criticisms of particular papers for particular students.

That may or may not match up to what this student, or even what any student, actually wrote.

And you should be trying to eliminate as much of such biases as you can.

Why? Give me a student's paper, and I can present you rational, coherent arguments as to why the student deserves anything from an F to an A.

Ultimately, this is why most of my grading comes from objective questioning. But still, there's no injustice in my "subjective" grading of essays and papers. Given the circumstances, the student deserved a B. Could I have given him a C or an A? Sure. But those were not the circumstances in which I was dealing. I was sober (so much worse for the student). It was the 5th paper that I graded, and I didn't feel like giving it a second look later.

Did I owe it to the student to get intoxicated, to grade his paper first or to give his paper a second look later? No.

That's different. The question is, do you try to make your criteria for grading similar? Or do you just "feel" something is one grade or another? It will be somewhat imperfect because we are human beings but it sounds like you're moving beyond that.

It's a case by case basis. And it has nothing to do with white or black, hispanic or asian, male or female. It's all about what I'm grading right at that moment in these particular circumstances.

That's probably true for most professors.

The point is the white guys are given a pass and black persons arnot. If you'd actually watched a video, two black persons SLEEPING in a car received 911 calls. What precisely were they guilty of?

I only watched parts of the first video. It's not reasonable to expect me, Alate_One, to put 45 minutes of watching youtube videos (when I just as easily could be watching pewdiepie or jacksepticeye) just to answer your points. If you have a case, briefly state it.

Fairness means being treated equally.

I disagree. Fairness has nothing to do with equality; it has everything to do with equity.

 

[Alate_One]

I only watched parts of the first video. It's not reasonable to expect me, Alate_One, to put 45 minutes of watching youtube videos (when I just as easily could be watching pewdiepie or jacksepticeye) just to answer your points. If you have a case, briefly state it.

I'll have to answer the rest later but In the second set of videos, while the white group of teenagers was spray painting the car, there were two 911 calls about black people *sleeping* in another car some distance away - they were the parents of the young black kids that were the actors for the second spray painted car.

So there is an example for you, Black people were accused of a crime for just being asleep in what was perceived to be the wrong place. It's more evidence that walking while black (in this case sleeping while black) is a real thing.

And really you don't think understanding people's treatment of other races is a bit more important than gaming? (I say this as a gamer myself.)

 

[chair]

Chair:

Before I answer, I wish briefly to note that absolutely the only reason I am even bothering to answer you is out of a genuine respect for your person. ..

Thanks for this.

I do not need a long explanation. I am extremely upset by the direction this entire thread has taken- and not just by you.

For many here the focus is: Do Black commit more crimes? Are they treated fairly by the police and courts?

What I don't see is the concern for our fellow humans. Or concern for society. Or concern for the future.

This infuriates me. I apologize again if I have taken it out on you, but that is the common attitude I see here. And I find it, shall I say, unappealing.

Chair

 

[chair]

raising them up in a God fearing family, with a mother and a father would be a good start

And making sure that happens is- somebody else's problem, I suppose.

 

[chair]

is it ethical that short people can't reach the cornflakes on the top shelf?

Spoken like a true hero whose concern for other people overides their concern for their own life.

 

[Tinark]

Thank liberalism for creating a welfare state, an entire entitlement society that enables people to not achieve and gives them the avenue not to. Thank liberalism for the destruction of the family and the lauding of single parent families , destruction of the family is at the core of all America's woes. Thank liberalism for erasing consequence for bad decisions, for bad behavior and for telling everyone that they are winners instead of instilling the values & virtue that breed success. Thank liberalism for erasing God from society...sowing to the wind reaping the whirlwind of a godless nation devoid of hope & direction. The liberal ideology in all it's pseudo-forward thinking has single handedly destroyed civil society and impoverished the nation...there is no race problem, these are problems bred from godless liberals & consequence of their ideologies realized.

What is the avenue to not "achieve"? Are you referring to the elimination of starvation and large reduction in homelessness? We need to bring these back to properly motive people to "achieve"?

Also, how can you claim the nation is impoverished when it is the richest it has ever before been in the history of the country and also the history of the entire life span of the human species? Are you imagining some theoretical even greater prosperity that exists only in the figment of your mind?

 

[Tinark]

No Hyperbole, just fact and obviously cold hard facts that liberals such as yourself are not willing to own...another hallmark of liberals, making messes and blaming others for them. At least own your mistakes...it goes with that line I wrote about consequences.

Your rant was completely fact free and remains so.

 

[Tinark]

Exactly, and we can also thank liberalism for the current rise in racial tensions. They're the ones who elected Obama who attended a church whose pastor damned America and promoted this whole idea that black lives matter more than any others.

You mean the disparity in police use of excessive force, the profiling, the achievement gap, the unemployment disparity, the incarceration disparity, and the poverty disparity aren't enough to do that? You have to invent some extra bogeyman that just happens to confirm to your own ingrained biases (how convenient!) so you can look the other way and ignore these problems?

 

[Tinark]

Maybe you should have listened you might have a better insight on why society is in trouble, and who's ideology has brought it to where we are today. Denial is not a river in Egypt...:juggle:

What societal troubles are you referring to?

 

[Tinark]

I find black people to be more Reactionary and not hesitant like white folks be.

Yowza.

Is this a genetic thing? Assuming it is true (I have no idea how you would measure it and even if it is actually true), what causes it? Why does this lead to all those problems listed in the OP?

 

[Tinark]

I don't see the problem. Are they guilty? If they're guilty, why complain?

You don't see anything wrong with treating one race's guilty people harsher than another? You are part of the problem.

Additionally, "guilt" is a social construct. We create the laws that make an action a crime (such as drug use) and the consequences of said action. A different set of laws with different consequences are possible.

Finally, what does "guilt" have anything to do with the excess poverty of children, the educational achievement gap, and greater unemployment levels for same level of education?

 

[Tinark]

It's a problem for evolutionists. There is only one "race." It is Darwinists who created the need for there to be distinct lines of people.

Welfare.

Then why are whites on welfare able to get jobs more easily, less likely to be incarcerated, receive less harsh sentences for the same crimes, less likely to have excessive force by police used against them for similar situations, vs. blacks on welfare?

Also, are you denying that people have different ancestries? Why do people with one set of ancestors that give them their characteristic appearances have such vastly different outcomes than others?

 

[Tinark]

What is your answer to "The Race Problem"?

look at what obama has done for race relations

all he needs is eight more years

So your idea of good race relations is "shut up about the problems and the disparities and know your place, if you do that we'll get along just fine"?

 

[Tinark]

Stop stirring it up.

So you too think good race relations entails shutting up about the problems and knowing your place?

Here's a novel concept: actually talking about them and making progress towards fixing them.

 

[ClimateSanity]

So you too think good race relations entails shutting up about the problems and knowing your place?

Here's a novel concept: actually talking about them and making progress towards fixing them.

There are only a few things that can solve our racial problems. Merely talking about them usually only serves to inflame and embitter. Hate is a massive obstacle. Refusing to see hate on one side and placing all blame on the other side goes absolutely nowhere. Talking about the problem does nothing until at least this stops happening

 

[chair]

...
Finally, what does "guilt" have anything to do with the excess poverty of children, the educational achievement gap, and greater unemployment levels for same level of education?

Thank you for saying something reasonable here. There seems to be little concern among many here for how to improve things. Too many people are happy as long as the guilty are punished, and very happily ignore the problems that underlie the mess.

 

[bybee]

Thank you for saying something reasonable here. There seems to be little concern among many here for how to improve things. Too many people are happy as long as the guilty are punished, and very happily ignore the problems that underlie the mess.

This is an assumption on your part! I doubt that many here are "happily" ignoring the problems of poverty.
Many of us are doing our best to make a difference.
I do feel that a change in culture is what is wanted and I know that takes time.
I'd like to see schools offer big incentives to reward good attendance, reward participation in community projects and especially reward graduation.
Two year scholarships to Technical, Vocational and Junior Colleges could be offered to those with good attendance, community service and graduation on their record.

 

[ok doser]

Spoken like a true hero whose concern for other people overides their concern for their own life.

i'm the tallest in my family, so i always get asked to take down the high stuff :idunno:

i never considered it potentially life threatening though :noid:

 

[gcthomas]

This is an assumption on your part! I doubt that many here are "happily" ignoring the problems of poverty.
Many of us are doing our best to make a difference.
I do feel that a change in culture is what is wanted and I know that takes time.
I'd like to see schools offer big incentives to reward good attendance, reward participation in community projects and especially reward graduation.
Two year scholarships to Technical, Vocational and Junior Colleges could be offered to those with good attendance, community service and graduation on their record.

Those are good ideas - will Republicans here support increasing spending on public schools to pay for the incentives? Tax funded schemes to help the poor are not universally popular on ToL.