What is the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ?

[Right Divider]

Where is your scripture? You say things without scripture references. This is characteristic of a false teacher.

Which part do you need scripture for? And another FALSE ACCUSATION from Mr. Christian.

If you can't back up what you say without scripture, you should not say it.

Which part is a problem for you?

The Old Covenant which has been abolished may have been between God and Israel, but the New Covenant is not. The New Covenant is between God and his people that are Christians.

What was it that you said about SCRIPTURE? Why are you always such a hypocrite?

HERE is what SCRIPTURE says about the new covenant.

Jer 31:31-34 (AKJV/PCE)
(31:31) ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (31:33) But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (31:34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The "house of Israel" and the "house of Judah" are NOT "his people that are Christians". This makes you either ignorant or a liar.

Under the New Covenant God's people are not led by laws, rules or religion, they are led by the Holy Spirit, Hebrews 8:10 also John 16:13-15. This is why Paul wrote, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. Living by laws, rules and religion is not living by faith.

You are blurring and mashing things together and making a complete mess of what the Bible says. This is very typical of Churchianity. Full of myths and half-truths.

 

[Caino]

Who cares? Irrelevant. Go back to your space ship.

It's relevant because you claim God set up sacrifices with the Israelites when in fact they adopted sacrifices and other practices from the Pagans and Canaanites etc.

 

[Right Divider]

It's relevant because you claim God set up sacrifices with the Israelites when in fact they adopted sacrifices and other practices from the Pagans and Canaanites etc.

No, God spoke directly to Israel through Moses. The fact that you do not like history is your own problem.

 

[Caino]

So what?

There are many gospels in the Bible. Jesus gave one to Paul.

Paul developed his own Gospel having never known Jesus.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul developed his own Gospel having never known Jesus.

You are a liar. Jesus appeared to Paul and revealed it to Paul.

 

[Robert Pate]

Which part do you need scripture for? And another FALSE ACCUSATION from Mr. Christian.

Which part is a problem for you?

What was it that you said about SCRIPTURE? Why are you always such a hypocrite?

HERE is what SCRIPTURE says about the new covenant.

The "house of Israel" and the "house of Judah" are NOT "his people that are Christians". This makes you either ignorant or a liar.

You are blurring and mashing things together and making a complete mess of what the Bible says. This is very typical of Churchianity. Full of myths and half-truths.

I am about to give up on you. You don't seem to understand basic Christian doctrine.

The New Covenant is about Jesus and his Gospel, which is the "Historical Gospel". Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant, Hebrews 12:24. The go between God and man. Jesus's death on the cross established the New Covenant, Hebrews 9:15. Go somewhere where it is real quite and think about this.

 

[Right Divider]

I am about to give up on you. You don't seem to understand basic Christian doctrine.

AGAIN you FALSELY ACCUSE ME.

The New Covenant is about Jesus and his Gospel, which is the "Historical Gospel".

I showed the CLEAR and UNAMBIGUOUS scripture and yet you reject the scripture. YOU are the one that does not understand BASIC BIBLE DOCTRINE.

Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant, Hebrews 12:24.

No argument there... read HEBREWS 8 which QUOTES Jeremiah 31!

Heb 8:8-12 (AKJV/PCE)
(8:8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (8:9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (8:10) For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (8:11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. (8:12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

It's about God's relationship with ISRAEL!

The house of Israel is ISRAEL.

The go between God and man.

Both Jeremiah and Hebrews confirm that the new covenant is between the SAME TWO parties as the old covenant: God and ISRAEL.

Jesus's death on the cross established the New Covenant, Hebrews 9:15. Go somewhere where it is real quite and think about this.

You are so confused and stubborn. It is YOU that needs to think about what the SCRIPTURE PLAINLY SAYS.

 

[Robert Pate]

AGAIN you FALSELY ACCUSE ME.

I showed the CLEAR and UNAMBIGUOUS scripture and yet you reject the scripture. YOU are the one that does not understand BASIC BIBLE DOCTRINE.

No argument there... read HEBREWS 8 which QUOTES Jeremiah 31!

It's about God's relationship with ISRAEL!

The house of Israel is ISRAEL.

Both Jeremiah and Hebrews confirm that the new covenant is between the SAME TWO parties as the old covenant: God and ISRAEL.

You are so confused and stubborn. It is YOU that needs to think about what the SCRIPTURE PLAINLY SAYS.

The book of Hebrews was written to Hebrew Christians, Hebrews 3:1, not to Christ rejecting Israel.

God has no covenant or relationship with unbelieving Jews. The Old Covenant was directed to Israel, that Covenant has been abolished.

"But now he has obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was based upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second" Hebrews 8:6, 7.

The better promises are Jesus and his Gospel. God does not write his laws on the hearts of Christ rejecting Jews. He writes his laws on the hearts of Christians, Hebrews 8:10.

 

[Right Divider]

The book of Hebrews was written to Hebrew Christians, Hebrews 3:1, not to Christ rejecting Israel.

The book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews.
Who said the book of HEBREWS was written to "Christ rejecting Israel"?
More false accusations?

The book of HEBREWS was NOT written to the BODY OF CHRIST where there is NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK.

God has no covenant or relationship with unbelieving Jews.

So every Jew in the OT was a believing Jew? Again, you have some ridiculous ideas.

The Old Covenant was directed to Israel, that Covenant has been abolished.

And the NEW COVENANT is with the SAME people as the OLD. I've showed you this clearly.

Jer 31:32 (AKJV/PCE)
(31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

WHO does this refer to? (Hint: ISRAEL).

"But now he has obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was based upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second" Hebrews 8:6, 7.

The better promises are Jesus and his Gospel.

For ISRAEL (i.e., the HEBREWS). Continue reading:

Heb 8:6-13 (AKJV/PCE)
(8:6) But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. (8:7) For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (8:8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (8:9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (8:10) For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (8:11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. (8:12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. (8:13) In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

Who did God find fault with? ISRAEL. So who will God make the NEW covenant with? ISRAEL.

God does not write his laws on the hearts of Christ rejecting Jews. He writes his laws on the hearts of Christians, Hebrews 8:10.

You cannot this a logical thought. The new covenant is with the SAME people as the old covenant. God will separate unbeleiving Israel from the believing remnant. So quit falsely accusing me of saying otherwise.

 

[Caino]

You are a liar. Jesus appeared to Paul and revealed it to Paul.

Paul had been a persecutor of disciples but then says Jesus returned for a secret visit and created a pipeline to Paul making even his simple letters of correspondence The Word of God. You can worship Paul but I'm loyal to God.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul had been a persecutor of disciples but then says Jesus returned for a secret visit and created a pipeline to Paul making even his simple letters of correspondence The Word of God. You can worship Paul but I'm loyal to God.

I don't worship Paul, you habitual liar.
Jesus called Paul. The twelve saw that and verified it.
You are a person that makes all kinds of false claims of secret knowledge. Get lost, you don't belong on a Christian site.

 

[Caino]

I don't worship Paul, you habitual liar.
Jesus called Paul. The twelve saw that and verified it.
You are a person that makes all kinds of false claims of secret knowledge. Get lost, you don't belong on a Christian site.

You’re funny when the truth angers you. You claim Paul’s words are Gods direct words making him more important than Jesus’ words that contradict the human sacrifice doctrine.

 

[Right Divider]

You’re funny when the truth angers you. You claim Paul’s words are Gods direct words making him more important than Jesus’ words that contradict the human sacrifice doctrine.

Again the habitual liar lies.

 

[Robert Pate]

The book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews.
Who said the book of HEBREWS was written to "Christ rejecting Israel"?
More false accusations?

The book of HEBREWS was NOT written to the BODY OF CHRIST where there is NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK.

So every Jew in the OT was a believing Jew? Again, you have some ridiculous ideas.

And the NEW COVENANT is with the SAME people as the OLD. I've showed you this clearly.

WHO does this refer to? (Hint: ISRAEL).

For ISRAEL (i.e., the HEBREWS). Continue reading:

Who did God find fault with? ISRAEL. So who will God make the NEW covenant with? ISRAEL.

You cannot this a logical thought. The new covenant is with the SAME people as the old covenant. God will separate unbeleiving Israel from the believing remnant. So quit falsely accusing me of saying otherwise.

The New Covenant is not with the unbelieving Jews. Why would God make a Covenant with those that rejected his Son Jesus Christ?

The New Covenant is with Christians, not Jews. Listen to what Paul said, "Wherefore holy brethren (Hebrew Christians) partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" Hebrews 3:1. Does that sound to you like unbelieving Jews?

The New Covenant is Jesus and his Gospel. It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

 

[Right Divider]

The New Covenant is not with the unbelieving Jews. Why would God make a Covenant with those that rejected his Son Jesus Christ?

Stop projecting. God made a covenant with Israel. God made a new covenant with the same people. That some of those people do not believe is not God's fault. He will remove them and leave the believing remnant of Israel.

The New Covenant is with Christians, not Jews.

The scripture, which you apparently despise, says otherwise. Here is is AGAIN. Please read it this time.

Jer 31:31-34 (AKJV/PCE)
(31:31) ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (31:33) But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (31:34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The house of Israel is.... ISRAEL. Whether you like it or not.

Listen to what Paul said, "Wherefore holy brethren (Hebrew Christians) partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" Hebrews 3:1. Does that sound to you like unbelieving Jews?

Paul did not write the book TO THE HEBREWS.

The New Covenant is Jesus and his Gospel.

You just keep making things up.

It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

That is the gospel of the grace of God that Jesus gave to Paul. Nobody is arguing against it.

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes, Paul did write the book of Hebrews, Hebrews 13:23.

Jesus and his Gospel are the New Covenant, Hebrews 13:20.

The "Historical Gospel" is the Gospel of grace. It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5;18, 19. It also makes all religions worthless.

 

[Right Divider]

Yes, Paul did write the book of Hebrews, Hebrews 13:23.

We do not know who wrote the book TO THE HEBREWS. But it was most likely not Paul.
This post explains it: https://theologyonline.com/threads/paul-did-not-write-hebrews-we-do-not-know-who-did.52480/

Jesus and his Gospel are the New Covenant, Hebrews 13:20.

God describes the new covenant in Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 (which quotes Jeremiah 31). In both cases it is crystal clear that the new covenant is with the same people as the old covenant.... ISRAEL. Why do you hate God's Word so much?

The "Historical Gospel" is the Gospel of grace.

There are many "historical gospels", like the one in Mark 1:1.
The gospel of the grace of God was given to Paul. Paul is the only one to use the term in all of the Bible. That you do not know the differences means that you are in NO WAY qualified to be a "teacher".

Have you never noticed that the Lord Jesus Christ is never quoted (during His earthly ministry to Israel) in scripture of ever using the word "grace"? Not even once! How was Christ preaching grace and never using the word!
Paul, whom Christ gave the gospel of the grace of God, uses the word ~85 times in his epistles!

It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5;18, 19. It also makes all religions worthless.

You are such a confused little puppy. Throw off the bonds of the myths of Churchianity and believe the plain truth shown in God's Word.

 

[Robert Pate]

We do not know who wrote the book TO THE HEBREWS. But it was most likely not Paul.
This post explains it: https://theologyonline.com/threads/paul-did-not-write-hebrews-we-do-not-know-who-did.52480/

God describes the new covenant in Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 (which quotes Jeremiah 31). In both cases it is crystal clear that the new covenant is with the same people as the old covenant.... ISRAEL. Why do you hate God's Word so much?

There are many "historical gospels", like the one in Mark 1:1.
The gospel of the grace of God was given to Paul. Paul is the only one to use the term in all of the Bible. That you do not know the differences means that you are in NO WAY qualified to be a "teacher".

Have you never noticed that the Lord Jesus Christ is never quoted (during His earthly ministry to Israel) in scripture of ever using the word "grace"? Not even once! How was Christ preaching grace and never using the word!
Paul, whom Christ gave the gospel of the grace of God, uses the word ~85 times in his epistles!

You are such a confused little puppy. Throw off the bonds of the myths of Churchianity and believe the plain truth shown in God's Word.

You are impossible to convince, even when scripture refutes you.

Paul wrote Hebrews, "Know you that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom , if he come shortly, I will see you" Hebrews 13:23.

Paul and Timothy were like brothers. Paul is the only one that speaks about Timothy. He mentions Timothy about 25 time in his writings. No one else mentions Timothy. This should convince you the Paul wrote Hebrews, but I doubt if it will.

 

[Right Divider]

You are impossible to convince, even when scripture refutes you.

Paul wrote Hebrews, "Know you that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom , if he come shortly, I will see you" Hebrews 13:23.

That does NOT prove that Paul write Hebrews.

Paul and Timothy were like brothers.

• We do NOT know which Timothy this verse may refer to.
• The Timothy that Paul knew also knew others that could call him brother.

Paul is the only one that speaks about Timothy. He mentions Timothy about 25 time in his writings. No one else mentions Timothy. This should convince you the Paul wrote Hebrews, but I doubt if it will.

• Nobody knows for sure who wrote Hebrews.
• All of Paul's epistles start with his name.
• Hebrews does not start with Paul's name.

The real point of the book TO THE HEBREWS is not who wrote it, but what it contains.
It contains HEBREW doctrine and not doctrine for the body of Christ.

 

[Robert Pate]

That does NOT prove that Paul write Hebrews.

• We do NOT know which Timothy this verse may refer to.
• The Timothy that Paul knew also knew others that could call him brother.

• Nobody knows for sure who wrote Hebrews.
• All of Paul's epistles start with his name.
• Hebrews does not start with Paul's name.

The real point of the book TO THE HEBREWS is not who wrote it, but what it contains.
It contains HEBREW doctrine and not doctrine for the body of Christ.

The book of Hebrews is a little different because Paul was writing to Hebrew Christians and not Gentile Christians. Paul is the only apostle that had the knowledge of the covenants, the Gospel and justification by faith and was a scholar of the law. Most of the other apostles were unlearned and had little knowledge of anything. Much of what Paul said can be found in his other epistles and in the Old Testament, which he frequently quoted.