What is the Gospel?

glorydaz

Well-known member
It’s so funny... You really crack me up...

Don't blame your crack up on me. :kookoo:

You rail against Sonnet as being a problem here...

As have others. Sowing discord under false pretenses needs to be railed against.

You won’t shut up

Right, no matter how big a fit you throw.

You think because you have support that it makes you “right”

What support? I think I'm right because I am right.

You have now expressed that you are a 4 Point dispensational Calvinist if people read inbetween the lines...

By all means, read between the lines. :chuckle:

You deny that Jesus died for ALL!

All who believe. Try and get that right.

You are the most prolific poster in this thread and will be still... long after I stop replying...

The only way you will ever stop posting is if you drop dead or are banned.

You have been nailed for being a person dependent on broken debate tactics

Why? Because I don't post a bunch of silly memes and have regular meltdowns?

You have yet to concede your errors that insult Christ

Newsflash. YOU aren't Christ.

You ... You... You...

Oh shoot...

Have the spotlight back... Jesus will probably lend you His too...

:mock: Evil one.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
Don't blame your crack up on me. :kookoo:



As have others. Sowing discord under false pretenses needs to be railed against.



Right, no matter how big a fit you throw.



What support? I think I'm right because I am right.



By all means, read between the lines. :chuckle:



All who believe. Try and get that right.



The only way you will ever stop posting is if you drop dead or are banned.



Why? Because I don't post a bunch of silly memes and have regular meltdowns?



Newsflash. YOU aren't Christ.



:mock: Evil one.

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Matthew 5:13

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Spoiler
 

Sonnet

New member
It's hard to get a decent witness for a creation account, unless the witness is the first thing created, or unless the creator gives us the account. But besides that, why is it fairy-tale-ish--the first chapter, at least?

I don't know if it's because I have Darwin's Theory in mind or because it is said to have occurred so recently. Or maybe it's because I think I would be laughed at if I gave it any credence...which is where the world it at - pretty much.

I have an open mind though.


The second chapter is reasonably recounted by Adam, if you're just looking for a witness. It's likely the episode was designed for a specific purpose, in my mind. (I have a thread on this topic as well, if you're interested, but can you see the theology club threads?. I think the idea of such a simple test is intriguing, and it makes me think God is wanting man to fail early-on, possibly, to avoid a situation that is much harder to correct.)

Thanks.

The only thing about the Babel account that sounds made up is the idea that the languages could be confused all at one time, right?

Exactly.


But we can see it happening today, given enough time.
Spoiler
Rated PG-13 for language.

Certainly building a tower to reach into heaven is not too far-fetched, even today.
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For me, that confusion of languages keeps me sceptical.

Balaam's donkey is hardly worth much consideration in the scheme of things. God works often through dreams or trances, and that could have been a decent explanation. I've fallen asleep driving a car (and survived)--I suppose one could fall asleep driving a donkey. :)

So you are ok with the historical accuracy of the witnesses of the resurrection, but not with the historical accuracy of the witnesses of Jesus' words? Are they not the same witnesses? To me, it's a great indicator of the authenticity of the scriptures, if no Christians have bothered to erase or change Jesus' words for 2000 years, despite the seeming problems.

Anything historical is questionable but there is certainly earnestness to the story of Jesus life and crucifixion. And really, changing water into wine isn't any different, in principle, to a talking donkey.


My "don't get bogged down" suggestion was based on the lack of understanding that is apparent when Christians can't agree. But prophecy is inherently difficult to understand until it is accomplished. Only a few Christians think those have all been fulfilled, but none chuck the power of the gospel because of them--because we know we don't understand everything about those words.

But if the resurrection is historical to you, and not fairy-tale-ish, is there anything that needs to be done with the information? Why or why not?

I had considered myself a believer in the past - but I was just guessing in hope. There is no point in me doing the same again.

I really don't understand faith. I can appreciate the sincerity of what Jesus is said to have done - but can't see how one goes beyond that.

I think your thread, if I understand your OP well enough, is another thing that is not good to get bogged down about. If Christians disagree over how it works, but agree THAT it works, to believe in Jesus Christ's death and resurrection, and that it can be applied to us for everlasting life, don't try to understand how it works prior to assuring its application to you. There will be plenty of time (eternity?) to argue over how and what God knew and when He knew it in terms of the recipients of His grace.

Yet I remain astonished that Christians allow...permit other Christians to promote the idea that Jesus did not die for all.

If one has to understand everything about how electricity works before one turns on a light, one will likely forever remain in the dark. God's Word is a light. Don't wait to turn it on, professing yourself wise.

But if you've already definitely rejected the gospel, you're wasting your miserably short amount of life you have left on a non-issue.

I (and no doubt many others here) would love to have this conversation with you when it means something to you, but right now, it doesn't, so we mostly turn to have the conversation between fellow-partakers, as you have seen. It's a lively in-house debate, but you're not in the house.

Ok.
 

Derf

Well-known member
I don't know if it's because I have Darwin's Theory in mind or because it is said to have occurred so recently. Or maybe it's because I think I would be laughed at if I gave it any credence...which is where the world it at - pretty much.

I have an open mind though.
I appreciate that. And it is pretty hard to set aside something you have been taught by respected teachers, whether Darwin's theory or the age of the earth.
For me, that confusion of languages keeps me sceptical.
Funny that both of these things--the age of the earth and the time it took for the confusion of languages--are time-related. And are historical in nature.

Correction of language confusion usually would take quite some time, too, like it currently does when a new tribal group is found (like in the Amazon, perhaps). Yet on Pentecost, that time was considerably shortened, and it was not the disciples of Jesus that witnessed it, but the unbelievers that witnessed it. Could God do one and not the other? Is it possible that Adam could have named the animals on the first day he lived? If so, then he was created with a language already learned, or God taught him real quick.


Anything historical is questionable but there is certainly earnestness to the story of Jesus life and crucifixion. And really, changing water into wine isn't any different, in principle, to a talking donkey.
Except the water/wine miracle is another time-related event. And it was witnessed by a number of people, whereas Balaam's conversation was only witnessed by two of his servants. Perhaps they brought the story to Israel at some point.


I had considered myself a believer in the past - but I was just guessing in hope. There is no point in me doing the same again.

I really don't understand faith. I can appreciate the sincerity of what Jesus is said to have done - but can't see how one goes beyond that.
Do you think you would feel different seeing him perform his miracles? And what about the apostles after his death? Would you want to hear wisdom from Him that has returned from the dead?

Yet I remain astonished that Christians allow...permit other Christians to promote the idea that Jesus did not die for all.
I explained this to Evil.eye in a previous post, but I know it's hard to keep track of all the blather. If Jesus' death being for you means that you are saved, but the bible clearly indicates that not all are saved, what can we say, but that Jesus' death was NOT for all?

Personally, I think He did die for all, but only some take advantage of it.

The end result is the same--those that do not believe are not benefited by His death, whatever the reason. What I don't understand is why Christians feel the need to argue about it so much. Apparently we are all still not fully sanctified and completed in the good work He has promised to do in us.

But here's an interesting question. What would you say if some Christians did NOT allow others to promote that idea, and they had the power to enforce it? Would you not condemn those Christians? Like I would the Inquisition? If you agree, then you condemn Christians for allowing a differing opinion, and you condemn Christians for not allowing a differing opinion.

Are you, perhaps, more harsh to your former brothers and sisters than the situation calls for? And why is that? Is it perhaps that you are still pulled toward the cross, but you are trying to reject it?

Let's try one more "what-if". What would you say to the church you used to belong to, if they said you would have to die when you walked away from the faith, because as Christians, we can't let anyone believe something different? I assume they didn't do that, because you're still alive.

Have we not, then, grown as the church universal, where we don't kill the heretics and apostates anymore? Maybe Jesus' prayer for unity in His church is indeed being fulfilled, but not as immediately as we might like to see. And isn't that just one more time-oriented miracle?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I explained this to Evil.eye in a previous post, but I know it's hard to keep track of all the blather. If Jesus' death being for you means that you are saved, but the bible clearly indicates that not all are saved, what can we say, but that Jesus' death was NOT for all?

Personally, I think He did die for all, but only some take advantage of it.

The end result is the same--those that do not believe are not benefited by His death, whatever the reason. What I don't understand is why Christians feel the need to argue about it so much. Apparently we are all still not fully sanctified and completed in the good work He has promised to do in us.

:e4e:

And that's the point. There is no difference. NONE. It's much ado about NOTHING.

To divide believers over a matter such as this is the height of hypocrisy.

Christ died for all, BUT not all are saved.

or

Christ died for all those who believe.

Yep, that's a reason to have tizzies and run around in circles. :chuckle:
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Speaking for his father.

Or after three days he would begin to build his BOC.

He said He would raise it. He didn't say His Father would do so.

John 10:17-18 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
He said He would raise it. He didn't say His Father would do so.

John 10:17-18 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

46Then Jesus called out in a loud voice, “Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit.” And when He had said this, He breathed His last.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
46Then Jesus called out in a loud voice, “Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit.” And when He had said this, He breathed His last.

And in three days, He would raise it up again. :three:

2 Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.​
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
You're full of it.

1 Timothy 2:5 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

"and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

And that's why Jesus was the perfect mediator. He was BOTH God and Man. Human and Divine.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
These three terms appear throughout the New Testament. Dispensationalists prefer to emphasize believers as the Body of Christ, Catholics seem to like to call Christians the Church, and Calvinists: the Elect. Each of these groups will use the other synonyms, but their preferred terms dominate their language.

These are synonyms. How do you become a member of the Church/Body of Christ/Elect? Believe the Gospel. The Lord purchased us with His own blood; His Church, His Body, the Elect. He did not purchase anybody else but those of us who want to be purchased, He does not force His will upon anybody, so if you're not a member of the Church/Body/Elect, then He hasn't purchased you.

I don't think there's a lot of disagreement about Christ only dying for His Church/Body/Elect. If we believe, then we become a member, and so He died for us, but it's never outside of the Church/the Body/the Elect, but as a member.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
These three terms appear throughout the New Testament. Dispensationalists prefer to emphasize believers as the Body of Christ, Catholics seem to like to call Christians the Church, and Calvinists: the Elect. Each of these groups will use the other synonyms, but their preferred terms dominate their language.

These are synonyms. How do you become a member of the Church/Body of Christ/Elect? Believe the Gospel. The Lord purchased us with His own blood; His Church, His Body, the Elect. He did not purchase anybody else but those of us who want to be purchased, He does not force His will upon anybody, so if you're not a member of the Church/Body/Elect, then He hasn't purchased you.

I don't think there's a lot of disagreement about Christ only dying for His Church/Body/Elect. If we believe, then we become a member, and so He died for us, but it's never outside of the Church/the Body/the Elect, but as a member.

Her purdy little proof text was lifted out of context.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
"and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

And that's why Jesus was the perfect mediator. He was BOTH God and Man. Human and Divine.


13I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living.

14Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.
 
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