What is the Gospel?

[Derf]

I feel the need to respond, as this idea of a "free gift of salvation" bothers me. As a former christian, I had been taught this all my life but now that I look back on it. It just doesn't make sense.

Is not the act of believing an action that precedes and is a prerequisite to Salvation?
How is that not earning one's Salvation?

Furthermore, isn't more than belief required? Repentance also must precede Salvation.

If Calvinism is true, then salvation is God's free gift to the elect. Otherwise, I don't see how the Gospel is not just Salvation by works( Belief and repentance through faith).

Seeking a little comfort in shared misery, I presume? I'm not sure how one who has rejected the gospel can share a lot about what it is, as it is not good news to him.

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on [the testimony of] two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? [Heb 10:26-29 NKJV]

 

[Derf]

Thanks. That you acknowledge my point('books that contain those things that sound fairy-tale-ish') is very honest of you. It is true that non-Christians openly mock those who believe in the creation account given in 'Genesis' - no doubt emboldened by neo-Darwinism.

Certainly, the miracles Jesus is said to have performed seem more credible than some we read of in the OT. I'll try and have a look at the book you linked to (though I believe Lewis considered Jesus in error regarding Matthew 24:34).

I'd be interested to know which stories you think are the more fairy-tale-ish in the Old Testament. I have my own selections, like David and Goliath, or Sampson, or possibly the Tower of Babel, and some of the creation story (mainly the temptation and fall). The bulk of the creation account and the flood account do not seem so to me. They are expressed too matter-of-factly, and in line with the other events, chronologically specified--there's no "once upon a time", but a definitive list of ancestors/events with a definitive number of years/days between each one.

But in reality the most fairy-tale-ish one of all is the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Certainly it's the most miraculous, don't you think? The question you have to answer is, "How does it apply to me?" If it's merely a fairy-tale, enjoy it and move on. If it's an historical account, which it pretty obviously is, then you kind of have to find out if there's a message/lesson to be learned and learn it. You seem to have reached this point in your searching. If there's anything that really needs answering, state it as plainly as you can, listen as intently as you can to the various answers, and make a choice. Don't sit on the fence waiting for an additional revelation from God. Even he might have a hard time one-upping the sacrifice of His own son.

Derf

P.S.
Regarding Matt 24:34, there is plenty of in-house debate, and Lewis' view that Jesus could be mistaken due to his not knowing for sure, while not mine, is one option. I appreciate his point that only 2 verses later Jesus admitted He did not know the day nor the hour (Matt 24:36). There's a strong contingent here at TOL that offers the option that Jesus' prediction was not mistaken as much as overcome by events (things changed so that the fulfillment was pushed off or no longer needed). I don't really want to recommend it for you, mainly due to my inadequacies in answering the conundrum, as well as my failure to continue the dialog I started (not through lack of desire, but through lack of time and effort) but I started a thread on this very subject.

I would caution you not to get so bogged down in the controversies that you miss the message (gospel). It's unlikely that all the controversies would ever be sufficiently resolved to satisfy you in time to make a completely informed decision prior to your death. And lack of complete knowledge/understanding rarely prevents people from using the knowledge they do have to avail themselves of the benefits of technology, science, history, etc. I should add politics, and most assuredly theology as is very apparent here at TOL. lain:

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Depends on the need, I suppose. I don't see Christ helping others by giving them a gospel presentation. Rather He usually heals their diseases and casts out their demons. I'm not proficient at either of those things. But if indeed we are to see Him in others that are in prison or sick or hungry or naked (Matt 25:40-41), it's fairly obvious what to do about it--visit, feed, or clothe them; even just a cool cup of water might be a help (Matt 10:42).

Any of these things could be considered "Loving thy neighbor as thyself."

Why do you ask?




P.S. I don't want to downplay the gospel presentation. I'm just wondering if we are letting the gospel get in the way of the gospel sometimes.

I asked for clarification, thanks.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

No, Derf ain't sending you a wad of cash. Put that "will work for food" back in the garage.

I once offered a guy holdin' one a them signs a job.

He said his wife wouldn't let him take it as he was makin' over 300 bucks a day holdin' that sign.

Never the less.....

11"For the poor will never cease to be in the land; therefore I command you, saying, 'You shall freely open your hand to your brother, to your needy and poor in your land.'

 

[glorydaz]

I once offered a guy holdin' one a them signs a job.

He said his wife wouldn't let him take it as he was makin' over 300 bucks a day holdin' that sign.

Never the less.....

11"For the poor will never cease to be in the land; therefore I command you, saying, 'You shall freely open your hand to your brother, to your needy and poor in your land.'

I should take up sign holding. :think:

That's why we wait on the Lord's leading. Giving money to a drunk is not a good idea.

"Judging all things" means discerning who is really "needy".

 

[glorydaz]

How so? You won't tell the world Christ died for all - so how GD?

So which goal post do you want me to try for today?

I think I've explained this forwards, backwards, and upside down.

It gets back to "our sins", doesn't it? We have a poster Beloved57 who loves to play this game. Go play with her for awhile, and see where you end up. Or we can keep playing games over semantics which seems to be why you are here. I see no other reason.


If He had died for all, then all would be saved. Are all saved? No.

So, why would I say something that isn't true? Instead, I say what is true.

Sin separated mankind from God. Jesus took it out of the way, so we could come freely before the throne of the Grace and be saved.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.​

Paul tells us He died to reconcile the world to God. Which means PEACE is offered to mankind through Christ's death on the Cross. Christ took the sins of mankind to the cross, so man could come freely before the throne of Grace. Those who REFUSE to be reconciled to God have REFUSED the BLOOD, therefore their sins are not forgiven.

So, NO, I will not tell an unbeliever that Jesus died for his sins, when that man may very well die in his sins, never coming to belief in God. I tell them to BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and they will be saved. Sins are paid for by the blood. If they do not apply the blood through faith, they have no access to that blood.

 

[glorydaz]

I feel the need to respond, as this idea of a "free gift of salvation" bothers me. As a former christian, I had been taught this all my life but now that I look back on it. It just doesn't make sense.

Is not the act of believing an action that precedes and is a prerequisite to Salvation?
How is that not earning one's Salvation?

Furthermore, isn't more than belief required? Repentance also must precede Salvation.

If Calvinism is true, then salvation is God's free gift to the elect. Otherwise, I don't see how the Gospel is not just Salvation by works( Belief and repentance through faith).

No, believing is not a work....it's being PERSUADED by something you see or hear.

Does it require any effort or work to see the rain falling out of the sky and believe in rain?

Repentance is believing...a change of mind.

 

[glorydaz]

Why don't you challenge those who declare Christ did not die for every human being instead? Surely that's an assault on the Gospel itself?

And you pretend you're here sincerely seeking. :nono:

Fake.

You are here to sow dissension and discord among the brethren.

Worrying about "assault" on the Gospel. LIARING :troll:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

So which goal post do you want me to try for today?

I think I've explained this forwards, backwards, and upside down.

It gets back to "our sins", doesn't it? We have a poster Beloved57 who loves to play this game. Go play with her for awhile, and see where you end up. Or we can keep playing games over semantics which seems to be why you are here. I see no other reason.


If He had died for all, then all would be saved. Are all saved? No.

So, why would I say something that isn't true? Instead, I say what is true.

Sin separated mankind from God. Jesus took it out of the way, so we could come freely before the throne of the Grace and be saved.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.​

Paul tells us He died to reconcile the world to God. Which means PEACE is offered to mankind through Christ's death on the Cross. Christ took the sins of mankind to the cross, so man could come freely before the throne of Grace. Those who REFUSE to be reconciled to God have REFUSED the BLOOD, therefore their sins are not forgiven.

So, NO, I will not tell an unbeliever that Jesus died for his sins, when that man may very well die in his sins, never coming to belief in God. I tell them to BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and they will be saved. Sins are paid for by the blood. If they do not apply the blood through faith, they have no access to that blood.

I meant this post... http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127108-Functional-Martyrdom-and-Confession

You are a self important B*tch that is too proud to admit Jesus died for ALL... and why?... for what retarded reasons? What’s more important than Jesus and His Infinite Gesture of Love for ALL... ?!?

World... Kosmos... All... John 3:16... Propitiation for the sins of “even” the world... and the sin of the world is Unbelief!

I’m serious! I don’t care if the whole site thinks I’m nutters. It profanes Jesus’ gesture of immense sacrifice to limit it! I’m flat out disgusted with everyone in the clique that is too cliqued up to tell your, GD, dishonest... semantics driven... too prideful to concede your mistake... backside off!

Light me up [MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION]... I’m flaming out!

You... Glory... are playing semantics... when what I highlighted in pink... clearly shows that you agree that Jesus died for ALL mankind!

The refusal is in mankind... but Jesus died for ALL mankind.

Now get off of Calvinism’s Lap... as it’s fork tongued Lap Snake... or maintain your bullsh1t obfuscation.

All means all... and [MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION]... If you don’t burn me and all my socks down... there’s plenty more where this came from...

All my best to all... even GB. No, GD... “GB” isn’t a typo.

All you have to do is admit all means all! You’re the one moving the damn goal post!

Jesus either Loved the WORLD and gave His only begotten Son... that WHOSOEVER... or He only Loved His friends and is a complete hypocrite that taught us to do as He doesn’t.

I’m going with... JESUS IS the TRUTH... and am forsaking the lie that is abhorrent!

He talked about doing kind things for enemies... so His death for All is unambiguous!
It even says... “While we were enemies”!

And people be judging because I’m pissed? Well F*ck that!

It’s the heart of God that He Loves all... even those that hate Him! That’s what makes Jesus... “Grace Incarnate”!! When God ends souls one day... He’ll do so with tears in His eyes!

Downplay that mess.... F*ck a bunch of this hoarsesh1t!

You’re welcome sock thread participants... in the back alley... pointing fingers and name dropping old EE without the @ (backbiting!)... there’s the real EE meltdown you were all predicting...

Ps... I’m reporting myself...

2 socks are dead and I disclosed the other 5 me’s... Hence 7Spirits.

7 accounts and I don’t want one of them! I may look terrible for cussing? But there is no higher PROFANITY than saying Jesus didn’t die for ALL!

Even if Sonnet never believes... which I have hope, faith and assurance in Christ's Love that he WILL... the effort to listen and approach him from his perspective has only been done by a few.

You know who you are and thank you!

Romans 5:10 For since our friendship with God was restored by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be saved through the life of his Son.

And LOOK... He DIED for ALL... even HIS enemies... to reconcile them as HIS FRIENDS... though they... “unbelievers”... sinners... we’re counted HIS friends... and He Died for them too!!!... ..... only those that believe Him and accept HIM find “eternal life” in His Ressurection...

Damn! D and N were right the whole time! Imagine that!

Sherman... I’ll be liking this with all of my socks to make obliterating me easier.

And a violation will soon be reported on my part in each of their behalf’s.

 

[Lon]

That Christians can't agree whether Christ died for all or not is a crisis I'd say - and should be dealt with.

So, is your idea of being a Christian, in-Christ, being a member of the church??? Such is useless. We congregate because we are saved, not saved because we congregate (though Jesus can meet us there).

To me? It always looks like you are circumventing Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5 Acts 4:12

Imho (prescription): Quit avoiding Jesus. I really can't think but in my every post to you, to say this in some variation or another.

There is only one way. John 14:6 When you 'were' in a church, did you ever read the New Testament? How many times?

 

[Lon]

I am asking for an unambiguous articulation of the Gospel, that's all

Honestly, I don't think there is anyone more suited on TOL to articulate the gospel in clarity than I (not that they can't do the same, I'm just saying I believe I met your request). Read the scriptures. The ones I've given are clear. Acts 16:30,31 1 Corinthians 1:2

 

[glorydaz]

You certainly do not. Paul explicitly says: 'By this Gospel you are saved' and proceeds to re-announce it. You deny the Gospel that Paul states is the Gospel.

Paul states how he had "preached" the Gospel to them already. They have that in mind, and YOU clearly don't.

Paul had already preached the Gospel to these people, which included the entire Gospel of the justification of faith (which this one does not). I'm not surprised you don't know what the Gospel is, you think you can find it in two verses....when Paul, himself, refers them to what he had preached to them before. You're like a guy who reads the ending sentence in a book and thinks he knows the whole plot.

You are going to extraordinary lengths to limit the Gospel.

Me? You're the one who limits it. You're claiming Paul's Gospel doesn't include being justified by faith.

Where did Paul ever expend as much ink as you. He simply described 'Christ died for our sins' as the Gospel, preached it and said that the Corinthians believed it.

No wonder you're not saved.

Your point is what?

You're a fool, according to Scripture.

And you are, de facto, asserting two Gospels. One you speak to believers and one you speak to unbelievers. As I said before, Paul allows for those in the church who have 'believed in vain' - (1 Cor. 15:2) - and proceeds to tell them the Gospel.

Nonsense. Paul wasn't even preaching the Gospel here, he was alluding to it in preparation for preaching about the resurrection. That's why he cuts right to the chase. Remember the Gospel I preached about the death, burial and resurrection....well He was seen by all these people, so how can some say He is not raised up. And on he goes to the resurrection.

Here's a piece of advice. Don't quit your day job, and take up preaching the Gospel. All these pages and you still can't see. :nono:

 

[Sonnet]

Paul states how he had "preached" the Gospel to them already. They have that in mind, and YOU clearly don't.

Paul had already preached the Gospel to these people, which included the entire Gospel of the justification of faith (which this one does not). I'm not surprised you don't know what the Gospel is, you think you can find it in two verses....when Paul, himself, refers them to what he had preached to them before. You're like a guy who reads the ending sentence in a book and thinks he knows the whole plot.



Me? You're the one who limits it. You're claiming Paul's Gospel doesn't include being justified by faith.




No wonder you're not saved.



You're a fool, according to Scripture.



Nonsense. Paul wasn't even preaching the Gospel here, he was alluding to it in preparation for preaching about the resurrection. That's why he cuts right to the chase. Remember the Gospel I preached about the death, burial and resurrection....well He was seen by all these people, so how can some say He is not raised up. And on he goes to the resurrection.

Here's a piece of advice. Don't quit your day job, and take up preaching the Gospel. All these pages and you still can't see. :nono:

I'm not going to respond.

 

[glorydaz]

Spoiler

I meant this post... http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127108-Functional-Martyrdom-and-Confession

You are a self important B*tch that is too proud to admit Jesus died for ALL... and why?... for what retarded reasons? What’s more important than Jesus and His Infinite Geature of Love for ALL... ?!?

Spoiler

World... Kosmos... All... John 3:16... Propitiation for the sins of “even” the world... and the sin of the world is Unbelief!

I’m serious! I don’t care if the whole site thinks I’m nutters. It profaned Jesus gesture of immense sacrifice to limit it! I’m flat out disgusted with everyone in the clique that is too cliques up to tell your dishonest... semantics driven... too prideful to concede your mistake... backside off!

Light me up [MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION]... I’m flaming out!

You... Glory... are playing semantics... when what I highlighted in red... clearly shows that you agree that Jesus died for ALL mankind!

The refusal is in mankind... but Jesus died for ALL mankind.

Now get off of Calvinism’s Lap... as it’s fork tongued Lap Snake... or maintain your bullsh1t obfuscation.

All means all... and [MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION]... If you don’t burn me and all my socks down... there’s plenty more where this came from...

All my best to all... even GB. No, GD... “GB” isn’t a typo.

All you have to do is admit all means all! You’re the one moving the damn goal post!

Jesus either Loved the WORLD and gave His only begotten Son... that WHOSOEVER... or He only Loved His friends.

He talked about doing kind things for enemies... so His death for All is unambiguous!

And people be judging because I’m pissed? Well F*ck that!

It’s the heart of God that He Loves all... even those that hate Him! That’s what makes Jesus Grace Incarnate!

Downplay that mess.... F*ck a bunch of this hoarsesh1t!

Your welcome sick thread participants... there’s the real EE meltdown you were all predicting...

Ps... I’m reporting myself...

2 socks are dead and I disclosed the other 5 me’s... Hence 7Spirits.

7 accounts and I don’t want one of them! I may look terrible for cussing? But there is no higher PROFANITY than saying Jesus didn’t die for ALL!

Even if Sonnet never believes... which I have faith He WILL... the effort to listen and approach him from his perspective has only been done by a few.

You know who you are and thank you!

Why? Because I take into consideration all of what is written. That I dare to specify what His death actually did or did not do for ALL, and what it did, in fact, do for ONLY SOME....has caused another melt down? No, it's because I dared to address your inordinate PRIDE.

All of us are NOT good with God, until and unless we are personally reconciled to Him by believing.


Unfortunately, Evil's PRIDE has taken such a blow, he is reeling. All because I dared to engage in an exchange of views on an internet forum. Hopefully, he will fall all the way down on the ground and see what he is....examine himself, whether he even be in the faith. Personally, I doubt it. He is a deceiver from beginning to end.




I hope Sherman removes this disgusting post, by this disgusting person.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm not going to respond.

You just did. Do we get to see another meltdown? opcorn:

 

[Derf]

Damn! [MENTION=83]Nihilo[/MENTION] and [MENTION=17606]Derf[/MENTION] were right the whole time! Imagine that!

Um...EE? I'm not sure I want to be mentioned in your flame-out.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Why? Because I take into consideration all of what is written. That I dare to specify what His death actually did or did not do for ALL, and what it did, in fact, do for ONLY SOME....has caused another melt down? No, it's because I dared to address your inordinate PRIDE.

All of us are NOT good with God, until and unless we are personally reconciled to Him by believing.


Unfortunately, Evil's PRIDE has taken such a blow, he is reeling. All because I dared to engage in an exchange of views on an internet forum. Hopefully, he will fall all the way down on the ground and see what he is....examine himself, whether he even be in the faith. Personally, I doubt it. He is a deceiver from beginning to end.




I hope Sherman removes this disgusting post, by this disgusting person.

@Sherman... I hope my dying words are merely edited by you... as GD dishes it and spits on Jesus by not telling Unbelievers Jesus died for them... but finally gets what she deserves and ...

shocker... she cries foul and whines....

EE out and promising to give you reason to perma bam me.

 

[James Dalton]

@Sherman... I hope my dying words are merely edited by you... as GD dishes it and spits on Jesus by not telling Unbelievers Jesus died for them... but finally gets what she deserves and ...

shocker... she cries foul and whines....

EE out and promising to give you reason to perma bam me.

I’m abusing my socks and neg repping GD with all of them for saying she wouldn’t tell unbelievers Jesus died for them. Any Clique of MAD believers that don’t correct her for this... are no longer my fellow theological group.

I disown all MAD who support this and sincerely want to get banned. Please take this serious.... I’ve never been more indignant about a matter than this.

 

[James Dalton]

This is not a “Goodbye” letter... nor a self sabotaging flameout... I am now... righteously indignant.

Functional Martyrdom and Confession

Martyr means "Witness" ... and the word has become synonymous with a person that is killed for their convictions, but willingly allows their death...

Witness is the most important thing we can allow Jesus Christ to "Do" through us... for Jesus Christ

Confession

This is my play on words... as I am "confessing" my sins and exposing something I have figured out here... as I am now certain it is exposing a very damaging "witness" to matters...

Sections of article... "The Clique" ... “My core beliefs”... "Martyrdom is far above ego"... "The Unbeliever" ... "False Martyrdom"... "John 5:39" ... "The ultimate Martyr"​

The Clique

Theology is the Study of God. "Theos"... God... "Study of"

Can we "Study"... "God" and package our findings in a neat and clean collection of volumes that tell others "how" to "search God out"? If you don't know the answer to this question... you are in dire need of prayer and reading of the book... "Job". God thoroughly explains to Job that he is not a "Study" that can ever be "complete".

A "Clique" is a group of people that relate to one another in a more respectful manner than others "outside" the "group".

There is a group of people here that carry the heart of the core ToL theology within them... I have been one of these people for a time. I have willingly maintained support of much of this "Theology" in my heart... but I have come to find that the "lesser" followers of this "theology" are in defense of the "theology" for personal power... on this site... instead of for the Glory of God. The thought is that furthering this “theology” will help many... but the truth is that “Faith” is supreme to “Theology” and “Jesus” is our only teacher.

There is a differing theology that is directly counter to ToL core theology... but it defends the “Trinity” with fervor and thus it allows these individuals to “Clique” up, as well.

This group can be supremely unforgiving to any that question it's ideas, and I have regrettably... been part of this clique. I've been guilty of this... for sure. But Love is the message... and if the Theology is so close to money... why throw Love out of the door?

My Core Beliefs

I only hold several absolute... theological understandings... and a couple preferential ones... I am uncompromising about the absolute beliefs...

God is Love

Love never “imprisons”... but sets the “will” free and edifies it by allowing will to be placed by the “human heart” out of sincerity... vice forced "destiny".

Love never destroys unjustly

Love never Judges unjustly

Love is the Heart of the Character of God

Jesus is God, because only a Humble and Loving God could and would Martyr Himself unto death for His Creation...

Forgiveness is the Heart of God's work of Salvation

The preferential beliefs I hold have to do with Prophecy and Israel.

Because of this... I previously integrated well with the “showcase” theology of ToL... however... recently...

Martyrdom is far above ego

Philippians 2 (Humility for Good) is a good way to understand this... as well as 1 Corinthians 9 (All things to All men and Paul explains approaching people from their perspective... instead of trying to make people come to yours... all for the cause of Christ)

The Unbeliever

...On a thread about “what is the gospel”... a friend of mine professed himself to be an unbeliever that was curious about why the gospel is “divided”. In deep evaluation... It was revealed that this friend of mine detests the idea that some people would dare twist scripture to insinuate that Jesus didn't die for all...

And yet... one of the most rabid members of “The Clique”... took it upon themselves to align with a person that abhors the idea that “JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD” ... AS 1 John 2:2 Specifically says... and perpetually mocked the individual who was seeking to discuss spiritual things, though they profess their unbelief... in honesty.

The Unbeliever even typed... that they “affirm they are a genuine seeker of Christ”... and the “Lead” Clique attack dog... mocked them for that too...

In witness... the person being witnessed to is always esteemed more important than the person “witnessing”... (Hence it being the ultimate form of humility... and unfathomable that God did so for us! He even washed our stinky feet while with us!) and in the case of unbelief... we are instructed to be gentle... and approach the person seeking with faith, hope, Love and listening ears that allow us to approach the individual from their perspective... (1 Corinthians 9)...

False Martyrdom

Some of this Clique supported this attack on the individual professing to “Seek Christ”... though the thread started out by the individual professing “unbelief”. Many of the supporters of the attacker... are wonderful people.. and even the “attacker” is a person that has much potential to serve God, well. But... the egregious attack on the individual with “budding faith” is so very appalling to me, and sends a clear message...

Some of the most important people on this site... are prone to seek to prove themselves correct... more than seek out hope for those that feel hopeless and are “Openly Seeking Christ”.

John 5:39-40

Jesus isn't dead and only with us in the relic of Scripture... though scripture is inerrant... The very Holy Spirit of Jesus is OFFERED TO ALL MEN!!! Scripture tells us this and 1 John 2:27 tells us that Christ teaches us all things and we are to let no “MAN” teach us. This means that God is ACTIVE and capable of saving men... without the presence of scripture. This idea was contested and God was literally called “Absent” in some words, and Scripture was elevated above the “Still Small Voice”... (1 Kings 19:11) by some people that I would have never expected to say such things.

The only reason that Jesus is suppressed as ALIVE and Active is to elevate man's interpretation of scripture over Christ! This is a bad thing... to say the least.

The Ultimate Martyr

Jesus is the resurrected WITNESS of all Witnesses... and His witness through His HOLY SPIRIT is the supreme teacher of all individuals. God gives to each man according to “what each man can handle”... and thus... all do not see things the same...

But Jesus... left all Glory and subjected Himself to our ridicule, hatered and literal murder of Him... to show that He loves us ALL and He is no Absent FATHER...

Conclusion

John 5:39-40 ... 1 Corinthians 9 ... 1 Kings 19:11 ... The Book of Job and the WHIRLWIND... 1 John 2:27 ... Philippians 2​

My major issue with the “Showcase Theology” is that some within it mock (2 Timothy 3:16-17)... by suggesting that some NT epistles aren't good for doctrine and reproof... and on that note... this is wicked! You can't take the 1 John 4:8 out of the matter... no matter how hard you try!
Jesus is the Gospel and it will all end in unity... though currently... in the “Dispensation” of it all... there is division.

- Matthew 18:6

All this said... the "Clique" offers a lot of good... but As I must now admit... there is no profit in dissension... quarreling and hostile communication...

I'm adding one more post to this to make it clear what I mean...

This is why I’m flaming out and leaving....

 

[glorydaz]

@Sherman... I hope my dying words are merely edited by you... as GD dishes it and spits on Jesus by not telling Unbelievers Jesus died for them... but finally gets what she deserves and ...

shocker... she cries foul and whines....

EE out and promising to give you reason to perma bam me.

"Dying words...." Oh the Drama. Pathetic wanna be. :nono: