ECT What is the Gospel?

[God's Truth]

:dizzy:
The snake-oil sales person is back.

Jesus came to earth and taught the rules for the New Covenant and then he died and shed his blood for the New Covenant.

That new Covenant is the gospel and the same gospel Paul and the apostles taught.

There is a new covenant. Covenants must be followed exactly.

See Luke 22:20, 1 Corinthians 3:6-9, and Romans 11:27.

 

[Interplanner]

Jesus came to earth and taught the rules for the New Covenant and then he died and shed his blood for the New Covenant.

That new Covenant is the gospel and the same gospel Paul and the apostles taught.

They both taught that he gave his life for the debt of man's sin, that he fulfilled all righteousness, the righteousness of God so we could have that.

Unfortunately 2P2P has people seeking another message or offer at the same time and thinks it was offered by Jesus, then postponed, and in the future he 'needs' to give them a land again.

 

[God's Truth]

They both taught that he gave his life for the debt of man's sin, that he fulfilled all righteousness, the righteousness of God so we could have that.

Unfortunately 2P2P has people seeking another message or offer at the same time and thinks it was offered by Jesus, then postponed, and in the future he 'needs' to give them a land again.

Strange how confused they are.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

They both taught that he gave his life for the debt of man's sin, that he fulfilled all righteousness, the righteousness of God so we could have that.

Unfortunately 2P2P has people seeking another message or offer at the same time and thinks it was offered by Jesus, then postponed, and in the future he 'needs' to give them a land again.

:chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

Unless you mean that there was a sense in which Judea could have been spared the devastation of 66-72, (and neither you nor Tam have ever hinted that) You don't know what you are talking about.

Show me the absolute clear land promise in Romans or Galatians or Hebrews or Peter and I'll be there with you. It is folly. There is no validation of it either. Instead there is the city that is above but closely connected.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Oh sure! A few months as the treasurer of the Esquire Club and saint john w thinks he's the cat's meow!

He's not?

 

[Tambora]

Strange how confused they are.

The confused find it strange.

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, the non-2P2P find 2P2P very strange.

 

[Tambora]

Show me the absolute clear land promise in Romans or Galatians or Hebrews or Peter

Christians don't limit themselves to just parts of what the bible tells us.

If there is a land promise ANYWHERE in scripture, it is a legit promise.
And EVERY promise of GOD must be legit or we can't count on any of them.

 

[Interplanner]

Christians don't limit themselves to just parts of what the bible tells us.

If there is a land promise ANYWHERE in scripture, it is a legit promise.
And EVERY promise of GOD must be legit or we can't count on any of them.

NOt if the Lord raises up Paul and the apostles to say that the promises to the fathers are fulfilled in the resurrection, which is all over the NT. There is no basis, or structure in the NT where the land would matter any more. There is not going to be another episode of Judaism or the old covenant; how can you class yourselves as NT Christians and not know this basic fact?

And when Paul did take up the topic of the truth of God's promises (ROm 3:3, 9:6) it was answered in the mission to the nations, which is the truth in Christ. It is not answered in a Davidic theocracy, in another episode of Judaism.

 

[Tambora]

Matthew 5:17-18 KJV
(17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

 

[Right Divider]

NOt if the Lord raises up Paul and the apostles to say that the promises to the fathers are fulfilled in the resurrection, which is all over the NT. There is no basis, or structure in the NT where the land would matter any more. There is not going to be another episode of Judaism or the old covenant; how can you class yourselves as NT Christians and not know this basic fact?

And when Paul did take up the topic of the truth of God's promises (ROm 3:3, 9:6) it was answered in the mission to the nations, which is the truth in Christ. It is not answered in a Davidic theocracy, in another episode of Judaism.

You make a LOT of false claims and never even bother to try to prove them.

It's funny that you have Romans 3:3 exactly BACKWARDS.

It's pretty close to the same with your "interp" of Romans 9:6.

Rom 9:6-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(9:6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: (9:7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (9:8) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (9:9) For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. (9:10) And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac; (9:11) (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) (9:12) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. (9:13) As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. ​

Read the WHOLE thing, not just your ONE favorite verse.

 

[Interplanner]

He also said cut off your hand if it offends.

 

[Right Divider]

He also said cut off your hand if it offends.

Maybe they're spiritual hands of the NT.

 

[Interplanner]

You make a LOT of false claims and never even bother to try to prove them.

It's funny that you have Romans 3:3 exactly BACKWARDS.

It's pretty close to the same with your "interp" of Romans 9:6.

Rom 9:6-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(9:6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: (9:7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (9:8) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (9:9) For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. (9:10) And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac; (9:11) (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) (9:12) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. (9:13) As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. ​

Read the WHOLE thing, not just your ONE favorite verse.

The topic of those two is whether the word of God has failed. It hasn't but Israel has. Israel has because there is no such thing as automatic Israel. There has to be faith. This is upheld right to the end of Rom 11 where only those sprouts that have faith will stand.

Ch 9 ends with 4 proofs from the OT that he is not talking about 2 parts of Israel but about how those who have faith are the real Israel.

You are defending 2 programs again and 2 days ago you said you were not.

 

[Right Divider]

The topic of those two is whether the word of God has failed. It hasn't but Israel has. Israel has because there is no such thing as automatic Israel. There has to be faith. This is upheld right to the end of Rom 11 where only those sprouts that have faith will stand.

Really? There has to be faith? No kidding.... Is this sometimes that was just newly revealed in Romans?

Romans 9:6 is EXCLUSIONARY. It is NOT making a mystic magic "Israel" out of gentiles.

Ch 9 ends with 4 proofs from the OT that he is not talking about 2 parts of Israel but about how those who have faith are the real Israel.

You are defending 2 programs again and 2 days ago you said you were not.

QUOTE me and we might be able to discuss what you THINK that I said.

God has ALWAYS been the God of ALL people and YET He chose Israel for a purpose and separated THEM from other people. You have no clue what that purpose is.

Rom 11:1-2 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:1) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin. (11:2) God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

​

Do you think that God has now cast away His people?

Rom 11:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:15) For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead? ​

What is "the receiving of them"?

 

[Interplanner]

The recie\\eiving of them is any time some of them become believers. ch 11 is meant to provoke Israel into its mission. It is in no sense a prediction that the whole ethne will believe, because mankind is divided between those who believe and those who don't.

There is the other Israel that believes and all of it will be saved.

As for the exclusionary, clearly this is not true. He meant anyone who has that faith, Jew or Gentile. The "us" in 24 draws all of the preceding thoughts together, and that's why 4 OT proofs are given from that point on.

but of course you have your own defs of OT and NT so what's the point.

There is no purpose for Israel that is not Christ's and what he is doing now. That is the purpose you don't understand. You think it is to gain domain of Judea and Palestine or something, but then we have a two-headed god; no thanks.

The Bible is a unified, synchronized message and has self-organizing doctrinal chapters that don't 'need' 2P2P to 'clear it up' or 'make sense.'

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The Bible is a unified, synchronized message

Ok. Is it okay to eat pork?

 

[God's Truth]

The confused find it strange.

There is one gospel and it is what Jesus taught while he walked the earth and what Paul taught, and that is forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ the Lamb of God.

 

[God's Truth]

Christians don't limit themselves to just parts of what the bible tells us.

If there is a land promise ANYWHERE in scripture, it is a legit promise.

The promises to Abraham were fulfilled. Dispensationalists teach the false doctrine that God did not fulfill the promises He made to Abraham in regards to earthy Israel, and they do not recognize that God already fulfilled the spiritual promises to the spiritual Israel, the church (spiritual Israel).
Premillennialists reject the truth that Israel possessed all the land God promised to them through Abraham. God said that if Israel got all the land promised, then they would have six cities of refuge. We see from the scriptures that this has been fulfilled.

Deuteronomy 19:7-9"Therefore, I command you, saying,'You shall set aside three cities for yourself.' "If the LORD your God enlarges your territory, just as He has sworn to your fathers, and gives you all the land which He promised to give your fathers— if you carefully observe all this commandment which I command you today, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in His ways always—then you shall add three more cities for yourself, besides these three. "

Joshua 20:7 So they set apart Kedesh in Galilee in the hill country of Naphtali, Shechem in the hill country of Ephraim, and Kiriath Arba (that is, Hebron) in the hill country of Judah.

8 East of the Jordan (on the other side from Jericho) they designated Bezer in the wilderness on the plateau in the tribe of Reuben, Ramoth in Gilead in the tribe of Gad, and Golan in Bashan in the tribe of Manasseh.

9 Any of the Israelites or any foreigner residing among them who killed someone accidentally could flee to these designated cities and not be killed by the avenger of blood prior to standing trial before the assembly.


There is listed the six cities of refuge: Kadesh, Shechem, Hebron, Bezer, Ramoth, and Golan.

God gave all the earthy land promises to Abraham.

Joshua 21:43-45 "So the LORD gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass. "

Joshua 23:14-15 "Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the LORD your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed."It shall come about that just as all the good words which the LORD your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the LORD will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you. "

Joshua’s promises fulfilled:
In 2 Samuel 8:3, David defeated Hadadezer, and he went to restore his rule at the Euphrates River.

1 Kings 4:21 And Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the Euphrates River to the land of the Philistines, as far as the border of Egypt. These countries brought tribute and were Solomon's subjects all his life.

2 Chr 9:26 And he was the ruler over all the kings from the Euphrates River even to the land of the Philistines, and as far as the border of Egypt.

Nehemiah 9:8 And Thou didst find Abraham's heart faithful before Thee, and didst make a covenant with him to give him the land of the Canaanite, of the Hittite and the Amorite, of the Perizzite, the Jebusite, and the Girgashite-- to give it to his descendants. And Thou hast fulfilled Thy promise, for Thou art righteous.

Jeremiah 11:5 "in order to confirm the oath which I swore to your forefathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day." Then I answered and said, "Amen, O LORD."

We can see from the scriptures that God gave all the earthy land promises to Abraham. Many Christians falsely teach that Israel did not get the earthy land which was promised and that the land in 1948 AD was the fulfilled land promise; which is incorrect because God completed His earthy promises before Jesus came and unbelieving Jews were CUT OFF and bound over to disobedience with the rest of the world and the only promise anyone has is through belief in Jesus Christ.