What is going on in Daniel 9?

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Elia

Well-known member
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Anointed ones of Aaron and Israel[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And they shall not depart from any counsel of the law to walk in all the stubbornness of their heart, but they shall be governed by the first ordinances in which the members of the community began their instruction, until the coming of the prophet and the anointed ones of Aaron and Israel [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Manual of discipline 9.9b-11[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]“They,” meaning the people of Yahwah are to keep the Mosaic laws of the covenant, until the coming of Messiah and his anointed disciples. Whereas Aaron and Israel was used before in a parable to mean wisdom and knowledge, this time it is used to mean anointed ones of the priest and nation. Yahshua is that high priest and prophet, and his disciples are the anointed ones that were chosen.[/FONT]

Bs"d

The Torah says that God's laws are forever.

Whatever some "Manual of discipline" says about that is totally irrelevant.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19



Whatever some "
 

Elia

Well-known member
[FONT="]Gathering of the Teacher[/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT="]Dead Sea Scrolls.[/FONT]

[FONT="][I]Col B19: From the day of the gathering in of the Teacher of the Community until the end of all the men of war who deserted to the Liar, there shall pass about forty years.[/I][/FONT][/I][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="][I]Col B 20: None of the men who enter the New Covenant in the land of Damascus and who again betray it and depart from the fountain of living waters, shall be reckoned with the Council of the people or inscribed in its Book, from the day of gathering in of the Teacher of the Community until the comings of the Messiah out of Aaron and Israel.[/I][/FONT][/I][FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Luke 3:23[/FONT]
[FONT="]Now Yahshua himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry.[/FONT][/B][FONT="] He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli,[/FONT]
[FONT="]Yahshua began his preaching at age thirty, and from that time to the destruction of the temple, forty years had passed. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]"Messiah of Aaron and Israel." Priest and nation, Knowledge and wisdom.[/FONT][/B][FONT="]

Dead Sea Scrolls: The Damascus Rule.#6. "But God remembered the Covenant with the forefathers, and He raised from Aaron men of discernment and from Israel men of wisdom,".

The Community Rule (1QS) D.S.S. #9. "until there shall come the prophet and Messiah of Aaron and Israel". [Aaron and Israel: Aaron was the high priest of the nation Israel.]


Bs"d

I believe in the Tanach, the Hebrew Bible.

I don't believe in the Dead Sea scrolls.

Yahshua is the Messiah of Aaron and Israel.
Isaiah 11:2

The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD...

Luke 2:40-47. 40. And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him. 47. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.

And yet another one who is trying to prove that a certain carpenter was the messiah by bringing a messianic prophecy which is also NOT fulfilled by his false messiah:

Isaiah 11; "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

Also here we have a messiah who is going to kill the evil people: "And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." And after that we get the better world, when it says: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them etc." This is what is supposed to happen, as soon as there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (the father of King David) and a Branch shall grow out of his roots; that is as soon as the messiah comes. Nowhere here is mentioned that the messiah will be killed and that these prophecies will happen at least 2000 years later. On the contrary; when the messiah comes redemption comes. And also for this messianic prophecy you don't have to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist in order to see that it is not fulfilled. Nothing of this all was done by Jesus. Conclusion: He was not the messiah.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
 

Elia

Well-known member
Your problem is that this was the "Jewish narrative" in the 1st century AD.

Bs"d

I have absolutely no problem with whatever you think was at one point the "Jewish narrative".

I believe in the Tanach, and not in what whoever thinks is the "Jewish narrative".

And Daniel 9 is very clear, it is impossible to fit that carpenter into it.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
 

beameup

New member
Bs"d

I have absolutely no problem with whatever you think was at one point the "Jewish narrative".

I believe in the Tanach, and not in what whoever thinks is the "Jewish narrative".

And Daniel 9 is very clear, it is impossible to fit that carpenter into it.

"that carpenter"? nobody is trying to "fit" anything.

The scribes and Pharisees were "disappointed" that Messiah didn't show up. Perhaps G-d was busy and forgot to send him? Maybe G-d changed his mind, but failed to inform you? Perhaps Daniel was a false prophet? Perhaps the Tanakh had been corrupted by the Christians? Or, your conjecture that He came in the first 49 years following the beginning of the prophecy (that's a new one :rotfl: )

Here are a sampling of the remarks of "disappointment" expressed by the Jewish Sages following 70 A.D.
Maimonides: Igeret Teiman, Chapter 3 “the end times have already come, but there is no sign of Messiah”
Maimonides: Mishneh Torah, Hilkhot Melakhim Umilchamoteihem, Chapter 11 - The Sages believed that Bar Kokhba was the Messiah, but he died (paraphrase)
Maimonides: Mishneh Torah, Hilkhot Melakhim Umilchamoteihem, Chapter 12 - We should give up trying to figure out when he will come and just await his coming (paraphrase)
Rabbi Judah: Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin - (Daniel’s 70 Weeks) were over long ago
Rabbi Moses Abraham Levi verifies the authenticity of Daniel’s 9th chapter prophecy and its unfulfillment
Talmud: Sanhedrin 97b “all we need to do is teshuva until Messiah comes, for all the predestined dates for the redemption have already passed

An ox knows its owner,
And a donkey its master’s manger,
But Israel does not know [its Master]
Isaiah 1:3
 

CherubRam

New member
The Anti-Christ were Hellenistic Jews. They were involved in Mysticism, and what has become known as Kabbalah. They were also involved in perverting scriptures, to deny Yahshua as the Messiah, and also re-establish the old priesthood, festivals, and sacrifices. A good study bible will show that as a fact. In other words, the Orthodox Jews are down right evil. That is why God made a New Covenant and revoked the Old Covenant. And thanks to the Catholics, Christians are divided as to what is correct doctrine. Do not argue with those Jews, the love of truth does not abide in them. That is why other Jews called them a synagogue of Satan.
 

Flaminggg

BANNED
Banned
Isaiah 11 ......................................

Also here we have a messiah who is going to kill the evil people: "And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." And after that we get the better world, when it says: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them etc." This is what is supposed to happen, as soon as there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (the father of King David) and a Branch shall grow out of his roots; that is as soon as the messiah comes. Nowhere here is mentioned that the messiah will be killed and that these prophecies will happen at least 2000 years later. On the contrary; when the messiah comes redemption comes. And also for this messianic prophecy you don't have to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist in order to see that it is not fulfilled. Nothing of this all was done by Jesus. Conclusion: He was not the messiah.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

Isiah 11/Job 33/Revelation 12 .................... God Kills Genetic Dan the Wolf/Lion, and God Kills Jesus so that he becomes the "Lamb Slain". These are the "Dead in Christ", and they are euthanized with no inheritance. Secondarily, just as God calls Genetic Dan the Lion as a Judge, God also calls Joseph the Lion as a judge. Joseph the Lion is introduced into the "Accounting of the Tribes" in the book of revelation to complete the law of the Gospel by appointing the "Express Image of Jesus" or Antichrist for approximately 150 Days of Noah's Flood. God will discern the repentance of the nations in "Three Days and a Half" by exterminating "Genetic Dan the Generation of Sin". Then God will allow the nations that remain to be lead of "Joseph the Blessing". ..................... Jeremiah 16:19-21? God bless the work of Abraham and counted it as Faith, that is what the Sign of Divorce/Antipas/Antiparticle means to the relative geographic areas going into the 150 Days of Star Wormwood, you must exterminate Genetic Dan to reveal the Lord's Body/Body of Molech.

Restatement of the 70 Weeks of Daniel 9

Matthew 20:3-6/Luke 23:42-46 ... God is talking about the Solstices, in the relative positions of the Clock. There is one modification made, the month of December is not Referenced:

March (3)
June (6)
September (9)
November (11)

God does not identify with the month of December. Lets play with the figures since this is the "End Time Watch Length":

9/11/2001 = Twin Towers Attack NYC
3/8/2014 = Flight 370 (Confirmed, Supernatural Marker)
6/18/2016 = 153 Days of Revelation Beginning (Confirmed)
11/18/2016 = 153 Days Completion (Confirmed)

The Figures from the Book of Daniel are as follows:
62
69
7
70

What can we do in terms of a logical statement with these figures?
62 = June 21 Solstice
69 = June 21 Solstice + 666 Mark of the Beast = 69
7 = Three Days Darkness of Crucifixion + 3 and 1/2 Days of Darkness + 5 Months of Revelation
70 = 30 Years of Jesus and Joseph + 40 Days of Jesus in a Resurrected Body (Parallel Length of Antichrist Lifespan as representative of Joseph)

Matthew 18:22-24/2 Peter 3:3-8 ... God talks about reducing the Heavenly value of 1000 to 10 = 5 Months of Noah's Flood + 5 Months of Revelation, God does this to emphasis the literal implication in the practical/fundamental yearly observance. .................... God talks about reducing the 70 Angels of Luke 3, into 7 Literal Cyclic Periods, the only argument that satisfies the equation at the level the Gospel is referring to is "3 Days of Jesus Crucified + 3 and 1/2 Days of Darkness + 5 Months of Revevelation" = 3+3.5+.5=7 Total ... right now we have been very busy growing in grace, because our lifespan is coming to a close, soon. Love and Blessing (No more games, the Nuclear Weapons must be ready to launch, and Genetic Dan must be targeted, you've lost the challenge to the authority of Antichrist on several grounds, now there is only death if you do not react, soon, a nightly walk tonight if I am sufficiently convinced you will use lethal force against me, otherwise later this week, as I am handling a public threat of significant implications).
 
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Epoisses

New member
This guy purposely obfuscates like some retarded animal wallowing in it's own feces.

Hey, Flaming are you one of those nerds from Harvey Levin's show?
 

Elia

Well-known member
"that carpenter"? nobody is trying to "fit" anything.

Bs"d

Christianity is trying, with all their might, to fit their messiah into Daniel 9.

And it is obvious he doesn't fit.

And no Christian here can give serious arguments as to why he should fit.

The only things they can come up with is the supposed "Jewish narrative", and disappointed Jews.

So it should be clear now that Daniel 9, just like Isaiah 7 and 53, has no bearing on that carpenter whatsoever.
 

beameup

New member
Bs"d

Christianity is trying, with all their might, to fit their messiah into Daniel 9.

And it is obvious he doesn't fit.

And no Christian here can give serious arguments as to why he should fit.

The only things they can come up with is the supposed "Jewish narrative", and disappointed Jews.

So it should be clear now that Daniel 9, just like Isaiah 7 and 53, has no bearing on that carpenter whatsoever.

So we should believe YOU that "a messiah" came within 49 years of the proclamation of Artaxerxes Longimanus. :rotfl:

Yes, it was all a "Christian conspiracy" that had Daniel predict that Mashiyach Nagiyd would appear 483 years after the proclamation of Artaxerxes Longimanus. :rotfl:

For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD. Lev 16:30
OOPS! No priest = no atonement = no forgiveness

But your iniquities (sins) have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. Isa 59:2
G-d cannot hear you
 

Flaminggg

BANNED
Banned
The the Revised Standard Version says: "from the going forth of the word to restore and built Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again, with squares and moat, …."

It is very simple: The prophecy ends with the destruction of Jerusalem en the Temple in 70. The prophecy encompasses 490 years, therefore it begins in 70 minus 490 is in 420 before.

Very simple arithmetic.

But then again, when you already cannot understand that 1 + 1 = 2, and not 1, then this might be too difficult for you.

EQUATION: "Express Image of Jesus, 70x7 or 490" (heb. 1:1-5)

JOB 31:33 If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:
(10 Generations of Genesis 5 ... Genesis 4:20-24)
JOB 31:34 Did I fear a great multitude, or did the contempt of families terrify me, that I kept silence, [and] went not out of the door?
(10 Generations of Genesis 11 ... Genesis 7:2-4)
JOB 31:35 Oh that one would hear me! behold, my desire [is, that] the Almighty would answer me, and [that] mine adversary had written a book.
(10 Measures of the Descending New City Star Wormwood/Little Book ... Revelation 11:13)
JOB 31:36 Surely I would take it upon my shoulder, [and] bind it [as] a crown to me.
(10 Apostles of Jesus Christ ... Matthew 10:1-3, Matthew 10:4 lists two Apostles that betrayed Jesus so they are not counted (Judas 30 Shekels, and Peter 3 Clucks of the Chicken)(Matthew 18:21-22 Declares the Apostle Peter betrayed Jesus like Judas)
JOB 31:37 I would declare unto him the number of my steps; as a prince would I go near unto him.
(10 Commandments Presented to Moses ... Leviticus 26:15-21)

What is God talking about "Express Image of Jesus", means, to prepare the way for "Joseph the Blessings"

(The Earth's Moon has about 10 Days deviation from the Standard Year of Earth's Revolution, Star Wormwood is a representation of the Earth's Moon, and this is a picture of "Joseph the Blessing" ... thus the figure of 10 has a spiritual implication but also a very real and literal implication)

1. God Brought the "Tower of Babel", and the "Express Image of Jesus" had to be completed at that time, Adam was a picture of this completion.
2. God Brought the "150 of Star Wormwood, of Noah's Flood", and the "Express Image of Jesus" had to be completed at that time, Noah was a picture of this completion.
3. God Brought the "Star of Bethlehem", or Jesus Incarnation, and the "Express Image of Jesus", which was Joseph his Father (not necessarily a human being), Joseph his Father was picture of this completion
4. God Brings the "150 of Star Wormwood, of Revelation", or the Antichrist (Rod of Iron or Staff of Moses), the Antichrist is a picture of this completion.

Moonphases.GIF


490 / 29.5 Lunar Cycle = 16 or 490 / 28.5 Lunar Cycle = 17.

62 Weeks of Daniel 9 x 28.5 = Independence Day of America, God will declare his Sign of Divorce/Antipas/Antiparticle here, and soon, as the gospel declares.
69 Weeks of Daniel 9 x 28.5 = Last Jubilee of Planet Earth, concluding with the Events of Revelation.

70th Week of Daniel 9 = the Year that God changes the Celestial Cycles, by activating the Earth's Moon, thus the 50th Year of the final Jubilee is 2016 and not 2017

(We are not counting 70 Angels of Luke 3, which uses their heavenly names to confound the wicked, this is from the beginning of time to the end of time..................because we've discussed this truth previously, the more tangible position of the argument is Star Wormwood, or Earth's Moon, thus, we have reached our conclusion, and soon, according to the Lifespan of the Antichrist)

7 Weeks of Daniel 9 = 19.5 Degrees Hyperdimension or 195 Days of the Gospels Pattern of, 12210 Day, 42 Days, 3 Days, 150 Days, as we've discussed. Love and Blessings (You'll have around 72 or so hours to kill 195,000 of Genetic Dan and pile their bodies relative to the Sign of Divorce at the Arrot Terminal in the City of Philadelphia's Market Frankford Line, or God will cut and kill Aaron from the Gospel's List of Separatist Inheritors*, right now we have a nightly walk tonight, and I am looking indicators that you will use lethal force against me, so we will keeping doing this, soon) (Seventeenth Day of the Second Month, can be a reference to the Earth's Moon, the Second Sun).
 
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KingdomRose

New member
Bs"d

Here you can see how the KJV is corrupted for the sake of fitting your messiah into Daniel 9:

About these seven weeks, there is something fishy going on in the King James. The 1611 KJV gives that verse in the correct form: " Know therefore and vnderstand, that from the going foorth of the commandement to restore and to build Ierusalem, vnto the Messiah the Prince, shall be seuen weekes; and threescore and two weekes, the street shall be built againe, and the wall, euen in troublous times."

See here: http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/...apter=9&verse=

We see there in the original 1611 KJV, that the colon is in the right place, right after the seven weeks.
This is changed around 1800. The accompanying explanation was that they wanted it to be more in line with the christological exegesis.

So they admitted that that translation was corrupted in order to squeeze JC into it.

So if anybody doubted the fact that the Christian Bible translations are corrupted in order to prove Christianity with it, here is the proof.



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".

Micah 4:5

"Squeeze JC into it"??? Well, JC is the Messiah, so no "squeezing" needed to be done. Daniel 9:24,25 was good news to Daniel....Jerusalem would be rebuilt along with a new Temple, and the Messiah would appear at a specific time. This would happen within "seventy weeks [of years]." As has been determined by studying Bible chronology, following their exile and suffering in Babylon for 70 years, the Jews would experience special favor from God for 490 years, or 70 years multiplied by 7. The starting point would be "the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem." This was when Nehemiah arrived in Jerusalem and began restoration. Most likely this happened near the end of 455 B.C, and it is then that the foretold "seventy weeks" (490 years) began. The Messiah actually did appear exactly at the end of 69 weeks [of years].

Jesus' public preaching began in 29 A.D. and lasted for 3 1/2 years. As prophesied, in 33 A.D. Christ was "cut off" when he died, giving his human life as a ransom for mankind. Though sin and death continued, Jesus' being cut off in death & his resurrection to heavenly life fulfilled prophecy. It "terminated transgression, finished off sin, made atonement for error, and brought in righteousness." Three and a half more years completed the 70 weeks. That time period, after Jesus' death that "made atonement for error," was spent by his disciples in continuing to keep the Abrahamic covenant in force by extending salvation to the Jews. That 70th week ended by Peter going to the Roman Cornelius, which began the good news being preached to the Gentiles.

(In verse 24, the Most Holy that was to be anointed is not the earthly Most Holy of the physical Temple but it refers to the Temple not made with hands in heaven...Hebrews 9:11,12)

It is plain to see that the prophecy of Daniel 9 was fulfilled almost 2,000 years ago....all 70 weeks!


:thumb:
 

beameup

New member
Messiah was "cut off" (executed) +/- 25 CE.
Only an ignorant people would reject this
prophecy from YHWH through Angel Gabriel,
and thus reject the Millennial glory of
Messiah (following his resurrection).

There remains one "week" of years, and
it is called the "Time of Jacob's Trouble"
and "The Day of the Lord", when the world
will be severely punished for rejecting
God's offer of salvation through Yeshua,
and only a "remnant" of the world's population
will survive to enter into the Messianic Kingdom.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Another theory:

Nearly 500 years before Jesus was born, Daniel the prophet was carefully studying prophecy and praying for His people Israel.
And he got excited because he was one of the exiles in that 70-year captivity in Babylon. He realized prophecy predicted that captivity would come to an end in about five years. “Wow! We Jews get to go back to Jerusalem. God’s about to set us free!”
As Daniel was speaking to God in prayer, thanking Him for this revelation, the angel Gabriel came,
<Daniel 9:22, 23>
“And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, ‘O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you skill to understand...for you are greatly beloved; therefore consider the matter, and understand the vision...”
Notice, we have a prophet,
God’s giving Daniel a vision, a new prophecy,
Gabriel told Daniel “I’ve got good news and bad news. First, the bad news. Another crisis is coming:”
<Daniel 9:24>
“Seventy weeks are determined for your people...”
Your Jewish nation, Daniel, has 70 weeks to get their act together, or God says I’m through with them! Finis. Over. Kaput.”
Daniel’s heart stops cold. Why, Gabriel?
<Daniel 9:24>
“...For your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression; to make an end of sins; to make reconciliation for iniquity; to bring in everlasting righteousness; seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.”
Daniel was troubled. The vision haunted him for days and weeks. He didn’t understand it. Stayed up nights thinking about it. It wasn’t clear.
You see, Daniel knew that in prophecy when you compute apocalyptic prophetic time, one prophetic day stands for one literal year! That’s how prophetic time works. Daniel knew about Ezekiel 4:6 and Numbers 14:34 which spell it out,
<Ezekiel 4:6> (KJV)
“I have appointed thee each day for a year.”
“First of all,” says Gabriel to Daniel, a prophet, “in this prophecy there’s a prophetic period of 490 literal years (70 prophetic weeks) for the Jews to get with it. 490 literal years are measured off for the Jews. To repent. Be saved as a nation of Israel. This is a special period of grace for the Jewish nation.
But then, a crisis is coming, big time!
But Daniel, here’s the good news! I want you to notice that during this 490-year period some great things are going to take place. Some special events leading up to Messiah!”
“Really?” “That’s right! Daniel, during this long time prophecy all these rites and ceremonies and blood sacrifices will be brought to an end. Now pay attention, Daniel.
This is the greatest prophecy God has ever given, Daniel. Four specific events leading up to Ground Zero, Calvary!
I’m going to tell you exactly the year when Messiah comes, exactly when He will officially begin His ministry; how long it will be; even when He will die! (down to the year, month, day and hour!) And much, much more, Daniel!”
“Wow! Thought Daniel. “Well, when does this prophecy start? When’s the beginning date? I’d like to know, so I can start computing when all these things will happen.”
Gabriel says to Daniel in verse 25, “Now listen, it just takes a little bit of simple arithmetic. You can start figuring this prophecy and all its finer details from the time of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.”
<Daniel 9:25>
“Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks.”
“Oh,” says Daniel. “Sure enough!” Jerusalem was in ruins at this time. Daniel and the Jews are captive prisoners in Babylon. Gabriel says, “get out your stopwatch Daniel when a decree is made to rebuild Jerusalem.”
“All right!” says Daniel. “Can’t miss that!” This is like “WordPerfect for Dummies.”
We find that decree recorded in the book of Ezra 6:14; 7:1, 7, 9, 13 – in fact, the Jews wrote it everywhere so nobody would miss it!
<Ezra 7:7, 13>
“...in the seventh year of Artaxerxes the King... (King of Persia – on such and such a day and month) “I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel...of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem...”
History tells us the decree of King Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem was issued in the year 457 B.C. In fact, in the Fall of 457 B.C. (The year, month and very day are given).
The angel says, “Get out your pencil, Daniel. This prophecy is so simple an 8th grader can figure it out. The beginning date of this long 490-year period is when this decree is issued: 457 B.C.”
“Daniel. Put it down. But notice, now there are several amazing subdivisions in this 490-year period. Write these down. 457 B.C. starts the clock ticking! But the first thing to happen? Rebuild the city!”
<Daniel 9:25>
“...to restore and to build Jerusalem...shall be seven weeks...the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times.”
Seven weeks is 49 prophetic days – but we want actual years, so that’s 49 years for the rebuilding of Jerusalem. Bingo! Brings you
Down to 408 B.C. Do the math. History tells us that date’s correct. Artaxerxes Longimanus completed the work.
Now, Daniel, from 457 B.C. this prophecy is to reach to Messiah, the Anointed One, verse 25,
<Daniel 9:25>
“Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty two weeks...” [69]
Doing a little math, that’s 483 days/years. 483 years after Artaxerxes’ decree brings us down to A.D. 27, the year Messiah should officially appear.
What happened that year? Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and the book of Acts all tell us that year, the 15th reigning year of Tiberius Caesar, John the Baptist was baptizing in the River Jordan.
And Jesus came and asked to be baptized in the Jordan River. Anoint Me, John. “Now?” John asks. “Now. The prophetic clock has struck!”
<Mark 1:15>
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand.”
John replies,
<John 1:29>
“Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”
People, this is Messiah! Showing up right on schedule!
Luke pinpoints this very year Jesus was anointed – at his baptism – the Fall of A.D. 27.
<Luke 3:1, 21, 22> (KJV)
“In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar...and praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, ‘Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.’”
God anointed Jesus “Messiah,” or “anointed One,” there at His baptism. Paul states:
<Acts 10:38>
“...God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost.”
In the Fall of 27 A.D. – and that’s important.
Because it fulfills the 483-year prophecy – to the very month! Just an accident? Why wasn’t Jesus baptized in the spring or the summer of that year? Just happenstance? No friend. The prophecy said Messiah would be anointed exactly at that time – not Buddha. Not Confucius. Not Mohammed. This was no coincidence. Because it proves Jesus was indeed who He claimed to be! Messiah!
Christ preached everywhere He went,
<Mark 1:15>
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
My whole life is based on prophecies!
But hold on. There’s more. It really gets beautiful and wonderfully technical to the milli-second. In fact, my favorite part of the prophecy. The Jews still had another seven years to get with it, right? From Christ’s baptism in A.D. 27 clear up to A.D. 34. For seven more years after the Savior entered His ministry in A.D. 27, the gospel was to be preached especially to the Jews. For three and one half years by Christ Himself; and afterward by the apostles.
But look! Something else happens first – before the Jewish nation falls apart in A.D. 34, Daniel 9:26-27 says in the midst of the week,
<Daniel 9:26>
“Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself.”
For others! He’d be killed. Look closely at what happens right smack in the middle of this last 7 years, Verse 27
<Daniel 9:27>
“And He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease...”
In other words, exactly three and one-half years after Jesus’ baptism, by sacrificing Himself half way through this “week,” He’d bring an end to the entire sacrificial system of the Jewish Old Testament!
Count it out with me. Use your fingers. From the fall of A.D. 27 to 28, 29, 30. Then 1/2 a year: fall, winter, to Spring of A.D. 31! When is Easter? In Spring!
Prophecy was fulfilled exactly! History tells us it was Passover in 31 A.D. exactly 3 1/2 years after His baptism. In the middle of this prophetic week, Jesus died as the perfect Lamb of God. He the true sacrifice offered on Calvary was, “cut off.” Killed. Hung upon a cross, scripture tells us, on the fourteenth day of the first Jewish month. (Equivalent to our Easter time).
You remember what happened that day?
Mark records it was Passover in Jerusalem; and just as the priest in the temple was about to slay the lamb on the altar, suddenly “the veil in the temple (6” thick) was rent in twain from the top to the bottom” by an unseen hand!
In horror, the High Priest dropped his knife, all those people now for the very first time see into the Most Holy Place – which only the High Priest was ever supposed to see.
It was worthless now. It meant nothing. Why? It all came to an end at the cross. For at that very moment, Jesus hung on Calvary and cried out,
<John 19:30>
“...it is finished...”
The Bible said
Jesus would be crucified when the Passover Lamb was slain three o’clock in the afternoon of the 14th day of the first month in A.D. 31. on the month, day, the very hour and even the very second the lamb in the temple was slain. Meeting the specifications of prophecy in every detail.
Time had come for the rites and ceremonies of the Old Testament to cease. No more sacrifices to show faith in a coming Savior.
Messiah Changed the World! What a prophecy! Fantastic because no other person in history could have fulfilled it.
But the prophecy isn’t ended. Three and one-half more years were measured off ending in 34 A.D. Three and one-half more years for the Jewish nation to straighten out, to accept Jesus and the message of the Disciples. But the Jews never did. The disciples tried to win them. But the Jewish nation officially rejected their message. Finally when they stoned Stephen to death in A.D. 34 they sealed their doom. Their rejection of the gospel. Stephen became the first martyr of the Christian church, and the prophetic clock struck again! Right on time. 490 years. The Jews had broken the camel’s back. The last straw. Persecuting Messiah’s church! So God sent word because they rejected Him as a nation, He finally had to reject them. And the disciples, under intense persecution, were scattered and...
<Acts 8:4>
“...went everywhere preaching the word.”
Preaching the Gospel now to the Gentile world. If God couldn’t use the Jews, God would use Gentiles to proclaim His truth and formulate His church.
We know this actually happened. Acts 13:46 gives the CNN News report from Antioch when the Jewish Taliban fiercely opposed the apostles:
<Acts 13:46>
Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, ‘It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.’”
Ending the 490-year prophecy of Daniel. End of the Jewish theocracy. Jesus said in Luke 13:7,
<Luke 13:7>
“Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down...”
The Jews are useless as a nation. They are obstructing the Plan of Salvation.
That’s why shortly after A.D. 34 the Jewish nation and Jerusalem was totally sacked, destroyed and leveled by the Roman armies in 70 A.D. Just like Daniel 9:26 foretold. Just like Jesus foretold in Matthew 8:12
<Matthew 8:12> (KJV)
“...the children of the Kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness.”
You see, friend, the 70-week prophecy is not only correct. It’s accurate to the very moment of time. Every little subdivision met complete fulfillment in history. Proving beyond the shadow of a doubt that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah foretold in Scripture. Jesus began His ministry and accomplished His death at the very times specified in prophecy. Who else could it be? No one. Not Confucius, Buddha. Jesus!
Notice! We see it again. A technique of God. The consistency of God. A prophet makes a time prediction at the end of which another prophet raises up to form a movement - a nucleus of people. They lead that remnant through the time of crisis and on into a new epoch. Our God is the same. He is predictable. He doesn’t change. And in the last days of this earth’s history there’s one more prophecy we don’t have time for tonight – of tremendous global and cosmic interest that follows the same pattern. It’s the final prophecy that leads out a people in final crisis...final jeopardy...this time into the epoch of eternal life. You don’t want to miss that message!

From some notes I collected along the way.
 

beameup

New member
Why do you refer to Jesus by a Canaanite name?

Yeshua is not a name used in the Bible.

Because you don't know Hebrew? Yet more folly?
Yeshua (ישוע, with vowel pointing יֵשׁוּעַ – yēšūă‘ in Hebrew)
 

Elia

Well-known member
So we should believe YOU that "a messiah" came within 49 years of the proclamation of Artaxerxes Longimanus.

Bs"d

No you should not believe ME, you should believe the Tanach, because there it is written that 7 weeks after the outgoing of the word to return a messiah would come.

Yes, it was all a "Christian conspiracy" that had Daniel predict that Mashiyach Nagiyd would appear 483 years after the proclamation of Artaxerxes Longimanus.

Yes, just read a good translation, just read the original 1611 KJV, and you see that the first messiah must come after 7 weeks:'

The Revised Standard Version says: "from the going forth of the word to restore and built Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again, with squares and moat, …." The RSV has it right. Just like the RSV is correct in Isaiah 7:14; 'young woman' instead of 'virgin'.

The King James in itself gives an reasonable literal translation of these verses as far as the time frames are concerned, except for the colon, the two dots on top of each other, right after the words 'three score and two weeks:' This colon is not to be found in the original text of Daniel. Read now the KJV text without this colon: "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to built Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again and the wall, even in troublous times." Here you see that without that colon inserted by the translators the KJV says basically the same as the RSV. Now you might understand why there is a big "King James only" movement. When you read the Bible in an accurate translation, Christianity already starts to fall apart.

The sad part of the story is that the original 1611 King James gave this verse in the right way, with the colon in the right place, as you can see HERE. Around 1800 the place of the colon is changed, and in a footnote they mentioned that that was done so that JC would fit in better. They openly admitted changing the translation to fit their Christian theology.

And also "The Message" translates this correct: "Here is what you must understand: From the time the word goes out to rebuild Jerusalem until the coming of the Anointed Leader, there will be seven sevens. The rebuilding will take sixty-two sevens, including building streets and digging a moat. Those will be rough times."

And also the English Standard Version translates this correct: "Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time."

OOPS! No priest = no atonement = no forgiveness

G-d cannot hear you

God hears us just fine. HERE you can read how we get forgiveness without animal sacrifices.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”

Joshua 24:14-15
 

Elia

Well-known member
"Squeeze JC into it"??? Well, JC is the Messiah,

Bs'd

No he is not, because he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.

so no "squeezing" needed to be done. Daniel 9:24,25 was good news to Daniel....Jerusalem would be rebuilt along with a new Temple, and the Messiah would appear at a specific time. This would happen within "seventy weeks [of years]." As has been determined by studying Bible chronology, following their exile and suffering in Babylon for 70 years, the Jews would experience special favor from God for 490 years, or 70 years multiplied by 7. The starting point would be "the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem." This was when Nehemiah arrived in Jerusalem and began restoration. Most likely this happened near the end of 455 B.C,


No, it did not "most likely happen near the end of 455 BC".

It is very simple, the prophecy of Daniel ends with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple:

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary"

We know that the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple happened in 70. Therefore the prophecy must have started in 70 minus 490 = 420 before.

And then it is impossible to squeeze that carpenter in.

(In verse 24, the Most Holy that was to be anointed is not the earthly Most Holy of the physical Temple but it refers to the Temple not made with hands in heaven...Hebrews 9:11,12)

Always, when the Tanach speaks about the holy of holies, it speaks about the Temple.

Saying that now suddenly it speaks about a carpenter in stead of the Temple is of course nonsense.

Everybody who can count can see that the carpenter doesn't fit in. Unfortunately, Christians cannot count even to two, so this is probably wasted on them.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
 

beameup

New member
As Daniel was speaking to God in prayer, thanking Him for this revelation, the angel Gabriel came
I’m going to tell you exactly the year when Messiah comes
<Daniel 9:25>
“Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks.”
<Ezra 7:7, 13>
“...in the seventh year of Artaxerxes the King... (King of Persia – on such and such a day and month) “I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel...of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem...”
History tells us the decree of King Artaxerxes Longimanus to rebuild Jerusalem was issued in the year 457 B.C. In fact, in the Fall of 457 B.C. (The year, month and very day are given).

483 years after Artaxerxes’ Longimanus decree brings us down to A.D. 27, the year Messiah should officially appear. edited for brevity

Lots of detail and commentary.
I'd just like to interject a couple of comments:
Every major aspect of Jesus' appearing and ministry coincided precisely with God's "Feasts". There are 7 major Feasts observed and these are called "divine appointments" and "holy convocations" (rehearsals). For example, a concise study of the 3 Spring Feasts shows a correlation with the Death-Burial-Resurrection as reflected in the sequential feasts of Passover-Unleavened Bread-Firstfruits.

Now, my question to you to ponder is: What "Feast" is associated with the Coronation of a King?

Also, a "footnote": the entrance into the Priesthood required a "ritual washing" (baptism). In Exodus 19:5-6 it states that every male in Israel is to be a "priest". Many would say that that is what John's ministry was "all about".
[there is clear evidence of this practice in the Essene community who left us the Dead Sea Scrolls]
 

Elia

Well-known member
Another theory:

Nearly 500 years before Jesus was born, Daniel the prophet was carefully studying prophecy and praying for His people Israel.
And he got excited because he was one of the exiles in that 70-year captivity in Babylon. He realized prophecy predicted that captivity would come to an end in about five years. “Wow! We Jews get to go back to Jerusalem. God’s about to set us free!”
As Daniel was speaking to God in prayer, thanking Him for this revelation, the angel Gabriel came,
<Daniel 9:22, 23>
“And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, ‘O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you skill to understand...for you are greatly beloved; therefore consider the matter, and understand the vision...”
Notice, we have a prophet,
God’s giving Daniel a vision, a new prophecy,
Gabriel told Daniel “I’ve got good news and bad news. First, the bad news. Another crisis is coming:”
<Daniel 9:24>
“Seventy weeks are determined for your people...”
Your Jewish nation, Daniel, has 70 weeks to get their act together, or God says I’m through with them! Finis. Over. Kaput.”

Bs"d

That part about God saying "I’m through with them! Finis. Over. Kaput.” I don't see in my Bible. Did you make that up yourself?



“Wow! Thought Daniel. “Well, when does this prophecy start? When’s the beginning date? I’d like to know, so I can start computing when all these things will happen.”
Gabriel says to Daniel in verse 25, “Now listen, it just takes a little bit of simple arithmetic. You can start figuring this prophecy and all its finer details from the time of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.”
<Daniel 9:25>
“Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command

It doesn't say "command" in the original text, is says "word".

to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks.”

That it only says in corrupted Christian translations. See here what the original 1611 KJV says about that: "Know therefore and vnderstand, that from the going foorth of the commandement to restore and to build Ierusalem, vnto the Messiah the Prince, shall be seuen weekes; and threescore and two weekes, the street shall be built againe, and the wall, euen in troublous times."

The Revised Standard Version says: "from the going forth of the word to restore and built Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again, with squares and moat, …." The RSV has it right. Just like the RSV is correct in Isaiah 7:14; 'young woman' instead of 'virgin'.

The King James in itself gives an reasonable literal translation of these verses as far as the time frames are concerned, except for the colon, the two dots on top of each other, right after the words 'three score and two weeks:' This colon is not to be found in the original text of Daniel. Read now the KJV text without this colon: "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to built Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again and the wall, even in troublous times." Here you see that without that colon inserted by the translators the KJV says basically the same as the RSV. Now you might understand why there is a big "King James only" movement. When you read the Bible in an accurate translation, Christianity already starts to fall apart.

The sad part of the story is that the original 1611 King James gave this verse in the right way, with the colon in the right place, as you can see HERE. Around 1800 the place of the colon is changed, and in a footnote they mentioned that that was done so that JC would fit in better. They openly admitted changing the translation to fit their Christian theology.

And also "The Message" translates this correct: "Here is what you must understand: From the time the word goes out to rebuild Jerusalem until the coming of the Anointed Leader, there will be seven sevens. The rebuilding will take sixty-two sevens, including building streets and digging a moat. Those will be rough times."

And also the English Standard Version translates this correct: "Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time."

“Oh,” says Daniel. “Sure enough!” Jerusalem was in ruins at this time. Daniel and the Jews are captive prisoners in Babylon. Gabriel says, “get out your stopwatch Daniel when a decree is made to rebuild Jerusalem.”

Not "when a decree is made", but "when the word goes out to rebuild Jerusalem."

“All right!” says Daniel. “Can’t miss that!” This is like “WordPerfect for Dummies.”
We find that decree recorded in the book of Ezra 6:14; 7:1, 7, 9, 13 – in fact, the Jews wrote it everywhere so nobody would miss it!
<Ezra 7:7, 13>
“...in the seventh year of Artaxerxes the King... (King of Persia – on such and such a day and month) “I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel...of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem...”
History tells us the decree of King Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem was issued in the year 457 B.C. In fact, in the Fall of 457 B.C. (The year, month and very day are given).
The angel says, “Get out your pencil, Daniel. This prophecy is so simple an 8th grader can figure it out. The beginning date of this long 490-year period is when this decree is issued: 457 B.C.”
“Daniel. Put it down. But notice, now there are several amazing subdivisions in this 490-year period. Write these down. 457 B.C. starts the clock ticking! But the first thing to happen? Rebuild the city!”
<Daniel 9:25>
“...to restore and to build Jerusalem...shall be seven weeks...the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times.”
Seven weeks is 49 prophetic days – but we want actual years, so that’s 49 years for the rebuilding of Jerusalem. Bingo! Brings you
Down to 408 B.C. Do the math. History tells us that date’s correct. Artaxerxes Longimanus completed the work.

Artaxerxes didn't do any work, the Jews build the Temple.

<Daniel 9:26>
“Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself.”
For others! He’d be killed.

Another mistranslation is: "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:" It doesn't say: "but not for himself", it says: "he will have nothing". But "not for himself" fits so nice with the Christian theology; JC dying for the whole world, not for himself. The only problem is: It isn't written there.

What it says is: "A messiah will be cut off, and he will have nothing".

Here are some translations who manage to translate that in the right way:

American Standard Version: "And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing:"

Common English Bible: "after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one will be eliminated. No one will support him.[a] The army of a future leader will destroy the city and the sanctuary. His end will come in a flood, but devastations will be decreed until the end of the war.[c]"

Footnotes:

Daniel 9:26 Or and will have nothing or and will disappear; Heb uncertain"


Contemporary English Version: "At the end of the sixty-two weeks,[a] the Chosen Leader will be killed and left with nothing."

Darby Translation: "And after the sixty-two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, and shall have nothing;"

English Standard Version: "And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing."

Holman Christian Standard Bible: "After those 62 weeks[a] the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing."

Lexham English Bible: "And after the sixty and two weeks an anointed one[a] shall be cut off, and he shall have nothing, and the people of the coming leader will destroy the city and the sanctuary,[c] and its end will be with the flood and on to the end there shall be war; these desolations are determined."
Footnotes:

A Daniel 9:26 Or “messiah”
B Daniel 9:26 Literally “there is not for him”

New American Standard Bible: "Then after the sixty-two weeks the [a]Messiah will be cut off and have nothing,"

New Century Version: "After the four hundred thirty-four years the appointed leader will be killed; he will have nothing."

New English Translation: "Now after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one will be cut off and have nothing."

New World Translation: "And after the 62 weeks, Messiah will be cut off, with nothing for himself."

As you can see, the vast majority of translations translate this correct. You can check them here: http://legacy.biblegateway.com/

You can check the Hebrew here: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

So stop hanging on to ancient corrupted translations.

I have no time now for the rest, hopefully later.
 
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