What are your thoughts on the debt ceiling deal?

[drbrumley]

Yep. The President cowered into the fetal position as banking/federal mobsters took another dump on the middle/lower class.

He didnt cower. He is fully onboard with the screwjob.

 

[frostmanj]

Congress and the president kicked the can down the road. Nobody, liberal or conservative, made any meaningful change in the status quo either way. A slow down in the rate of debt increase is still a debt increase.

 

[chrysostom]

please stop saying

kick the can down the road

please

 

[Alate_One]

So, where are all the tax loophole fixes and "restructuring" to go along with the cuts?

Haven't you heard? We can't possibly even TALK about taxes, cause Grover Norquist said so. The dumbest possible thing that could have happened in the deal, well other than having the fight again in 6 months.

We'll see if "tax reform" has any traction with the Republicans.

 

[frostmanj]

please stop saying

kick the can down the road

please

Can do. Is there a cliche you would prefer? I aim to please. Don't want to be a stick in the mud. When in Rome do as the Romans do, I say.

 

[drbrumley]

Haven't you heard? We can't possibly even TALK about taxes, cause Grover Norquist said so. The dumbest possible thing that could have happened in the deal, well other than having the fight again in 6 months.

We'll see if "tax reform" has any traction with the Republicans.

If neither party wants to do away with taxes, then they are not serious about reform.

 

[chrysostom]

Can do. Is there a cliche you would prefer? I aim to please. Don't want to be a stick in the mud. When in Rome do as the Romans do, I say.

that dog won't hunt

 

[Nihilo]

What are your thoughts on the debt ceiling deal?

This is the first time in my memory that the raising of the debt ceiling generated so much publicity; headline news for months now. That was good :up:. Raising the debt ceiling in the future will no longer be merely going through the motions.

Democratic republics need informed voters to function optimally. What we the People have declared collectively through all this press, is that now that the public debt is higher than the gee-dee-pee, we need to be very careful as we proceed. And I agree with that. The next time the issue comes up, we will be better informed, and the next election cycles, we can make better informed decisions in the ballot box.

And America will continue to be the world leader in all things, because of this. :FrankiE:

 

[chrysostom]

The next time the issue comes up, we will be better informed, and the next election cycles, we can make better informed decisions in the ballot box.

and the liberals will continue to vote for the democrats who protect the

lawyers
unions
baby killers
and
animals

 

[some other dude]

Welcome to the New World Order!

About time!

That old one just wasn't working out.

 

[Town Heretic]

and the liberals will continue to vote for the democrats who protect the

lawyers

Said the fellow who apparently no longer realizes (among other things) that those conservative judges he so longs for will all be lawyers, as will most of those who confirm them.

unions

You mean, of course, the non procreating variety.

baby killers

No, rhetoric aside you can by and large credit both parties with that carnage.

and
animals

So you're for cruelty to animals? :think: Who knew.

Else and on topic, if you can imagine: business as usual with a lot of preceding political maneuvering and fanfare signifying....not much.

 

[eameece]

Can do. Is there a cliche you would prefer? I aim to please. Don't want to be a stick in the mud. When in Rome do as the Romans do, I say.

When at first you don't succeed, try try again. atrol:

 

[chrysostom]

No, rhetoric aside you can by and large credit both parties with that carnage.

.

it is the democrats that block the nomination of conservative judges who might not find laws against abortion to be unconstitutional

that is how they protect the baby killers

 

[eameece]

What are your thoughts on the debt ceiling deal?

This is the first time in my memory that the raising of the debt ceiling generated so much publicity; headline news for months now. That was good :up:. Raising the debt ceiling in the future will no longer be merely going through the motions.

Democratic republics need informed voters to function optimally. What we the People have declared collectively through all this press, is that now that the public debt is higher than the gee-dee-pee, we need to be very careful as we proceed. And I agree with that. The next time the issue comes up, we will be better informed, and the next election cycles, we can make better informed decisions in the ballot box.

And America will continue to be the world leader in all things, because of this. :FrankiE:

I might have thought so, theoretically. But if not raising the debt deiling means ruining the economy, then it is not very "careful" at all. It is a good blackmail tool, but it is unconstitutional. A better way is needed, if one is possible. This is a budgeting issue. A balanced budget amendment maybe, but it might have to be so flexible that it is almost meaningless. But at least attempting a balanced budget would not violate our debt obligations.

 

[Nick M]

He didnt cower. He is fully onboard with the screwjob.

Exactly. He knows what he is doing. He is coming through with his promise to wreck the US economy.

 

[Nick M]

it is the democrats that block the nomination of conservative judges who might not find laws against abortion to be unconstitutional

that is how they protect the baby killers

The Roe vs Wade court was Republican majority.

 

[kmoney]

The Budget Control Act Of 2011 Violates Constitutional Order

.......
First, the "Debt Ceiling Disapproval Process" in BCA 2011 Title III unconstitutionally upends the legislative process.

The Constitution's Article I, Section 8, Clause 2 vests in Congress the power "to borrow Money on the credit of the United States." As two of America's leading constitutionalists, St. George Tucker and Joseph Story, observed, the power to borrow money is "inseparably connected" with that of "raising a revenue." Thus, from the founding of the American republic through 1917, Congress -- vested with the power "to lay and collect taxes, duties and imposts," -- kept a tight rein on borrowing, and authorized each individual debt issuance separately.

To provide more flexibility to finance the United States involvement in World War I, Congress established an aggregate limit, or ceiling, on the total amount of bonds that could be issued. This gave birth to the congressional practice of setting a limit on all federal debt. While Congress no longer approved each individual debt issuance, it determined the upper limit above which borrowing was not permitted. Thus, on February 12, 2010, Congress set a debt ceiling of $14.294 trillion, which President Obama signed into law.

However, a different approach was used when BCA 2011 was signed into law on August 2, 2011. Title III of the Act reads the "Debt Ceiling Disapproval Process." Under this title Congress has transferred to the President the power to "determine" that the debt ceiling is too low, and that further borrowing is required to meet existing commitments," subject only to congressional "disapproval." For the first time in American history the power to borrow money on the credit of the United States has been disconnected from the power to raise revenue. What St. George Tucker and Joseph Story stated were inseparable powers have now by statute been separated.
.....

Second, the joint select committee on deficit reduction provision undermines the constitutionally established bicameral legislative process.

The Budget Control Act of 2011 establishes a joint select committee of 12 members, six from the House and six from the Senate. Three of the six House members are appointed by the Speaker of the House and three are appointed by the House minority leader. Three of the six Senate members are appointed by the majority leader and three by the leader of the minority.

Title IV of the Budget Control Act vests in that joint select committee the power to draft legislation to reduce the deficit by at least $1.5 trillion over the period of fiscal years 2012 to 2021.

Here, members of Congress yield their individual legislative duties and responsibilities to a "Super Congress" selected not by the people -- but by Republican and Democrat leaders.

How many of these Congressmen and Senators campaigned on the platform that they would be elected, get sworn in, and then obediently surrender the power their constituents vested in them to the very same Republican and Democrat leaders who have created the problems they were sent here to solve?

To facilitate passage of the joint committee's legislative proposals, Section 402 contains a number of procedural rules designed to expedite consideration of the joint committee recommendations. Generally, the rules require action by both houses no later than December 23, 2011, on a joint committee recommendation that must be submitted no later than December 9, 2011. Additionally, the section prohibits amendments to the proposed legislation and prescribes severe limits on the time for debate. In short the procedural rules dictate unity of action of a majority of each house to accelerate adoption of the deficit reductions recommended by the joint committee within a two-week period of time.

The Constitutional order is quite different. Article I, Section 1 vests the legislative power in a bicameral Congress composed of a House of Representatives and a Senate. The members of each body are elected in two very different manners. Each senator is elected by the vote of the people of an entire state, and each state has the same number of senators regardless of population. The members of the House are elected by the people in congressional districts divided into districts, each state being guaranteed at least one representative and the others allocated according to population.

The composition of each house then is deliberately designed by the Constitution to represent vastly different majorities. And for good reason. As the Supreme Court observed in I.N.S. v. Chadha, 462 U.S. 919, 949 (1983), "by providing that no law could take effect without the prescribed majority of the Members of both Houses, the Framers reemphasized their belief ... that legislation should not be enacted unless it has been carefully and fully considered by the Nation's elected officials."

The Budget Control Act of 2011 departs from that commitment vesting incredible power in the joint committee, virtually guaranteeing that deficit reduction legislation will be "carefully and fully considered," if at all, only by 6 of 100 elected senators and 6 of 435 elected representatives.

These are not matters of constitutional form without meaning -- the process was considered central to the founders.

....