Water baptism is not for the body of Christ

[Nick M]

Well, I'll stick with what you consider to be confused as it makes a whole lot more sense to me. How anyone can preach Jesus and not understand that He is our Savior is pretty confused thinking in my book. Preaching Jesus makes no sense in other context.

You should stick with scripture or you will confuse people with the obvious contradictions.

31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished. 32 For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon. 33 They will scourge Him and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again.”


34 But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken.

See it?

 

[Thine Inwardly]

the only thing that may contradict or cause another to question the validity and importance of water baptism is the fact that the Apostles were still commanding people to be Baptized for perhaps 50 to 90 years after the resurrection of Jesus.

if you notice, even the people who already been baptized before were commanded to again be completely and entirely be --- Re Baptized for the second time / again,

Re baptized all over again, in the Name Of The Lord Yahashua Anointing

GA 3:27...... For as many of you as have been BAPTIZED into Christ, have put on Christ.
CO 1:13...... Is Christ divided? .. was Paul crucified for you? or were ye BAPTIZED in the name of Paul?
Here Paul is commanding to baptize DIRECTLY .....in JESUS NAME.... clearly.

RO 6:3...... Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED into Jesus Christ were BAPTIZED into his death?
AC 19:5 ...... When they heard this, they were BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus.
AC 10:48...... and he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord…
AC 8:16...... (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were.. BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
AC 8:12...... But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and in the name of Jesus Christ, they were BAPTIZED.
Acts 19:3-5 ......"They were baptized unto Johns baptism. } Paul, SAID YOU are to BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS... ... When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

Acts 19:3-5 ......"They were baptized unto Johns baptism. } Paul, SAID YOU are to BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS... ... When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be Baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, For the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost …… Acts 2:38

I understand completely what you are saying and it makes allot of sense. I do agree with you for a large part of what you say but I am not seeing the Apostles in Scripture in agreement with the Idea and WATER BAPTISM is no longer important..

Especially when the Apostles are commanding anyone who had been baptized previously without using the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ - to drop everything at once and immediately be Re - Baptized..... and this is at least ongoing for 50 years after the resurrection,.

i did enjoy reading your awesome topic and really do appreciate the wonderful opportunity to discuss such importance.
God Bless ya

 

[Right Divider]

the only thing that may contradict or cause another to question the validity and importance of water baptism is the fact that the Apostles were still commanding people to be Baptized for perhaps 50 to 90 years after the resurrection of Jesus.

Paul never commanded anyone to be water baptized. Paul said that there is one baptism for the body of Christ and it's dry!

1Co 12:13 (KJV) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

 

[Right Divider]

Clue: Baptism does not mean water.

 

[Nick M]

Clue: Baptism does not mean water.

Clue number 2, water is a ceremonial cleansing of sin. Not that they will listen, but he who has died (baptized into Christ) has been freed from sin.

 

[Right Divider]

if you notice, even the people who already been baptized before were commanded to again be completely and entirely be --- Re Baptized for the second time / again,

I've seen this nonsense so many times...

NO, they were NOT "rebaptized".

Acts 19:1-7 (AKJV/PCE)​

(19:1) And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, (19:2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. (19:3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. (19:4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. (19:5) When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (19:6) And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (19:7) And all the men were about twelve.​

Verses 4 and 5 were Paul talking about the PAST... i.e., what happened with John the baptizer and THOSE that HE was talking to in the PAST and what THEY did in the PAST!

Paul did NOT "rebaptize" them.

Re baptized all over again, in the Name Of The Lord Yahashua Anointing

GA 3:27...... For as many of you as have been BAPTIZED into Christ, have put on Christ.

There is NO WATER in Gal 3:27.

CO 1:13...... Is Christ divided? .. was Paul crucified for you? or were ye BAPTIZED in the name of Paul?
Here Paul is commanding to baptize DIRECTLY .....in JESUS NAME.... clearly.

No, Paul never commanded that anyone be baptized with water.

RO 6:3...... Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED into Jesus Christ were BAPTIZED into his death?

Baptized INTO HIS DEATH is not talking about WATER.

AC 8:16...... (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were.. BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
AC 8:12...... But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and in the name of Jesus Christ, they were BAPTIZED.

Philip was one of the TWELVE that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL... so YES, THEY had water baptisms. We in the body of Christ have ONE baptism and it's NOT water. We are baptized BY THE SPIRIT INTO THE BODY.

Eph 4:4-6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:4) [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (4:6) One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.​

​

ONE baptism... and HERE it is:

​

1Cor 12:12-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(12:12) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ. (12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be Baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, For the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost …… Acts 2:38

Indeed, there was water baptism for God's program with Israel. As a matter of fact, they had MANY baptisms (some on which were water)...

But the body of Christ has ONE baptism and it does NOT include water.

I understand completely what you are saying and it makes allot of sense. I do agree with you for a large part of what you say but I am not seeing the Apostles in Scripture in agreement with the Idea and WATER BAPTISM is no longer important..

You have water on the brain. You're not alone, much of Churchianity has a fixation on this Jewish religious ritual.

Merry Christmas and may the truth find you.

 

[Right Divider]

Clue number 2, water is a ceremonial cleansing of sin.

It is a ceremonial cleansing, but not always for sin. Some water baptisms (in Israel's law) were about cleansing ceremonial objects or people.

Not that they will listen, but he who has died (baptized into Christ) has been freed from sin.

Amen!

 

[Thine Inwardly]

i understand,

1Pe 3:21 ........ even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,

but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Anointing :

i was just saying it is part of the process of being born again, it is not what is providing the Salvation.

it's like bowing your head when you pray

or asking people you are praying with to be reverent and quiet and peaceful while you pray with them

or tying your shoe laces in a perfect bow, its just an outward act of good conscience and a show of submitting yourself and showing that you want to be buried with the Anointing and accept the death of Jesus as your propitiation

 

[Right Divider]

i understand,

1Pe 3:21 ........ even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,

but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Anointing :

Peter was not writing to you and neither were James and John.

https://graceambassadors.com/prophecy/peter-james-and-john-were-not-talking-to-you

Again, since you are ignoring me, Paul says that there is ONE BAPTISM for the body of Christ and it does NOT include water.

It is baptism BY the Spirit INTO the body (of Christ).

 

[glorydaz]

Peter was not writing to you and neither were James and John.

https://graceambassadors.com/prophecy/peter-james-and-john-were-not-talking-to-you

Again, since you are ignoring me, Paul says that there is ONE BAPTISM for the body of Christ and it does NOT include water.

It is baptism BY the Spirit INTO the body (of Christ).

Paul disagrees with you, stating the holy scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation. All scripture is profitable. Why discourage anyone from reading any scripture? Wise unto salvation. That‘s pretty clear.

​

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.​

​

All scripture is profitable for doctrine. It’s like wearing blinders to ignore any of God’s word. Not good.

​

​

 

[glorydaz]

You should stick with scripture or you will confuse people with the obvious contradictions.

31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished. 32 For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon. 33 They will scourge Him and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again.”


34 But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken.

See it?

Exactly what I was talking about in another thread. Written in the prophets but not yet manifested in their sight.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Paul disagrees with you, stating the holy scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation. All scripture is profitable. Why discourage anyone from reading any scripture? Wise unto salvation. That‘s pretty clear.

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.​

All scripture is profitable for doctrine. It’s like wearing blinders to ignore any of God’s word. Not good.

No one here denies what Paul said.

What RD said does not conflict with what Paul said in 2 Timothy 3.

In other words, you're missing the point of contention.

Yes, the letters from Peter, et al, are profitable, etc.

No, those letters were not written to the Body of Christ.

Both of those things can be true simultaneously, because they are not making opposing truth claims.

No one is discouraging anyone from reading any scripture.

What is being said is to read scripture that is not written to you as though it was not written to you. Read it as though it was written to someone else, and glean instruction from it that way.

We're literally doing the opposite of what you are accusing us of.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul disagrees with you,

No, he does not.

stating the holy scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation.

Paul was tasked with FULFILLING (i.e., completing) the Word of God.

Col 1:21-29 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:21) And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled (1:22) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: (1:23) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; (1:24) Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: (1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; (1:26) [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: (1:27) To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (1:28) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (1:29) Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.​

All scripture is profitable.

I completely agree. Where did I say otherwise? (Hint: I didn't)

Why discourage anyone from reading any scripture?

I don't. That is a false accusation on your part.

Wise unto salvation. That‘s pretty clear.

​

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.​

​

All scripture is profitable for doctrine. It’s like wearing blinders to ignore any of God’s word. Not good.

I don't "wear blinders". It is YOU that wears blinders.

Peter and James were writing to a specific audience. It's crystal clear to those without blinders on.

Jas 1:1 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:1) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.​

​

1Pet 1:1 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,​

If you don't respect that, you will take their instructions OUT OF CONTEXT. Which is what most of Churchianity does today.

Does the following apply to you? (Hint: NO, it does NOT)

1Pet 2:11-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:11) Dearly beloved, I beseech [you] as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; (2:12) Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.​

Are you making an ark? Why not? The Bible says "Make thee an ark". (Hint: CONTEXT).

 

[glorydaz]

No, he does not.

Paul was tasked with FULFILLING (i.e., completing) the Word of God.

Col 1:21-29 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:21) And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled (1:22) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: (1:23) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; (1:24) Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: (1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; (1:26) [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: (1:27) To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (1:28) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (1:29) Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.​

I completely agree. Were did I say otherwise? (Hint: I didn't)

I don't. That is a false accusation on your part.

I don't "wear blinders". It is YOU that wears blinders.

Peter and James were writing to a specific audience. It's crystal clear to those without blinders on.

Jas 1:1 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:1) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.​

​

1Pet 1:1 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,​

If you don't respect that, you will take their instructions OUT OF CONTEXT. Which is what most of Churchianity does today.

Does the following apply to you? (Hint: NO, it does NOT)

1Pet 2:11-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:11) Dearly beloved, I beseech [you] as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; (2:12) Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.​

Are you making an ark? Why not? The Bible says "Make thee an ark". (Hint: CONTEXT).

It would probably be a good idea if you let the Holy Spirit reveal the truth from the Scriptures, rather than you deciding what might apply to an individual believer. I’m not building an ark, but Peter, for instance, does indeed speak to believers, and when you claim he isn’t speaking to us, you do err. Often times, for example, Peter says what Paul does using other inspired words to show the truth. Truth is for everyone.

I realize you are concerned about people taking things out of context, but you jump too quick and too hard on other members…new and old. For instance, you cite 1 Peter 2:11-12, but you fail to note that Paul says the same thing of us. We too are strangers and pilgrims. “Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;”. So yes, that verse does apply to us.

 

[glorydaz]

No one here denies what Paul said.

What RD said does not conflict with what Paul said in 2 Timothy 3.

In other words, you're missing the point of contention.

Yes, the letters from Peter, et al, are profitable, etc.

No, those letters were not written to the Body of Christ.

Both of those things can be true simultaneously, because they are not making opposing truth claims.

No one is discouraging anyone from reading any scripture.

What is being said is to read scripture that is not written to you as though it was not written to you. Read it as though it was written to someone else, and glean instruction from it that way.

We're literally doing the opposite of what you are accusing us of.

I’m not accusing you of anything. I’m simply stating a fact.

So are you suggesting that Peter is not in the body of Christ and is not speaking to fellow believers. Neither Jew nor Greek, remember?

 

[JudgeRightly]

I’m not accusing you of anything. I’m simply stating a fact.

Not what it sounded like.

So are you suggesting that Peter is not in the body of Christ

Peter has never been in the Body of Christ.

He has always been under Israel's "New Covenant," you know, the one God said He would make with Israel.

and is not speaking to fellow believers.

Peter, in his letters, is writing to a future generation of believers under the New Covenant, along with any current (at the time) believers under the New Covenant.

He was not writing to members of the Body of Christ.

If he was writing to members of the Body of Christ, that would violate his agreement with Paul in Galatians 2:7,9.

Neither Jew nor Greek, remember?

Only in the Body of Christ, which Peter, et al, is not a part of.

Within the New Covenant, the distinction still remains between Jew and Gentile. If there was no distinction under the New Covenant, then Israel has no special status (which is how it is currently), which defeats the whole point of having Israel separate from the rest of the world.

This important distinction is what you and many other Christians (which Peter WAS, just not a member of the BoC) seem to completely miss.

To reiterate:

God made a covenant with Abraham and Israel, that they would be His people, and He would be their God.

That gave them special status among the nations.

In the Body of Christ, there is no longer any difference between Jew or Greek.

THERE IS NO SPECIAL STATUS. There is no partiality! (cf Romans 2:11; Ephesians 6:9)

When you try to conflate those under the New Covenant between Israel and God, and those in the Body of Christ, you either have to say "there is partiality, and God shows favoritism to His chosen people" (as the Calvinists do) or you have to say "there is no difference between Jew and Greek under the New Covenant," (as replacement theologians say) WHICH ENTIRELY DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF BOTH THE NEW COVENANT AND THE BODY OF CHRIST!

 

[Right Divider]

It would probably be a good idea if you let the Holy Spirit reveal the truth from the Scriptures, rather than you deciding what might apply to an individual believer.

Please try to keep your arrogance under control. I'm just as much guided by the Holy Spirit as you are, so enough with the childish insults.

I’m not building an ark, but Peter, for instance, does indeed speak to believers, and when you claim he isn’t speaking to us, you do err.

Again, you cannot see past the end of your nose. Peter was writing to Israel. Why did you ignore the quote? Here it is again:

1Pet 2:12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:12) Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.​

Clearly and ambiguously, Peter it speaking to NON-GENTILES (i.e., Israel). Peter is NOT talking to the body of Christ.

Often times, for example, Peter says what Paul does using other inspired words to show the truth. Truth is for everyone.

Truth's have CONTEXT.

I realize you are concerned about people taking things out of context, but you jump too quick and too hard on other members…new and old.

Look in a mirror.

For instance, you cite 1 Peter 2:11-12, but you fail to note that Paul says the same thing of us. We too are strangers and pilgrims. “Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;”. So yes, that verse does apply to us.

Again, you cannot understand the CONTEXT of ANY of these.

Peter talking about people OUTSIDE of their OWN LAND.
Paul is talking about people ON EARTH when our home is HEAVEN.

Two DIFFERENT CONTEXTS!

 

[Nick M]

the only thing that may contradict or cause another to question the validity and importance of water baptism is the fact that the Apostles were still commanding people to be Baptized for perhaps 50 to 90 years after the resurrection of Jesus.

Israel as a nation is not saved. Individuals must be saved as we are, as God does not recognize Israel today. According to Paul. Not one jot or tittle will pass from the law, for them until the end. Paul was not water baptizing. But I have no problem thinking James told them to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. Until the day of refreshing comes for Israel. And James could be in the remnant. If the Bible is silent, it is kept from us, or, we don't need to know because it is not important.

 

[glorydaz]

Please try to keep your arrogance under control. I'm just as much guided by the Holy Spirit as you are, so enough with the childish insults.

My arrogance? Seriously, do you ever listen to yourself?

Again, you cannot see past the end of your nose. Peter was writing to Israel. Why did you ignore the quote? Here it is again:

1Pet 2:12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:12) Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.​

Clearly and ambiguously, Peter it speaking to NON-GENTILES (i.e., Israel). Peter is NOT talking to the body of Christ.

Truth's have CONTEXT.

No, Peter is speaking to believers about how they should comport themselves to the gentile nations. That is the context.

Look in a mirror.

Again, you cannot understand the CONTEXT of ANY of these.

Peter talking about people OUTSIDE of their OWN LAND.
Paul is talking about people ON EARTH when our home is HEAVEN.

Two DIFFERENT CONTEXTS!

No, you miss out on the fact that the Gospel of salvation makes no distinction between the Jew and the Gentile. There is no place for such distinctions as you want to insist. Peter was speaking to Jews, but his message is the same as Paul preached.

Phil. 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights of the world.​

Peter is making clear that believers will be persecuted and spoken evil of by unbelievers….the gentile nations. It certainly isn’t speaking of gentile believers. The same problems being faced by believers, both Jew and gentiles being addressed by two different apostles. One body of believers.

 

[Thine Inwardly]

what if we look at the original message in the Greek Manuscripts.

εις ONE - κυριος LORD - μια A - πιστις FAITH εν IN - βαπτισμα BAPTISM

εις - ONE
μια - A
εν - IN

ONE - A - IN

ONE LORD A FAITH IN BAPTISM

Eph 4:5 - THE MANUSCRIPTS DO NOT LIE
please put trust in the original message directly from the manuscripts

the Greek word " εν " always means - IN
the Greek word " μια " means - A / AN or can mean FIRST
not one