Was the man Jesus God before He was Glorified . . . .

[Cross Reference]

Can you sufficiently prove this? And from what source?

Given Jesus' submission to the Father, why would you believe otherwise? He was made a little lower than the angels.

"Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." John 8:28 (KJV)

 

[Cross Reference]

John's Gospel proves all of this wrong. It literally points (literally being a reference to actual literature) to Christ being the Word Incarnate. Thus, you entire prose on Jesus not being in the Beginning with God is entirely false.

Jsands, We have to remember when John understood these things about Jesus that he write about them as he did. Certainly John did not understand before the cross leading up to the ascension and then to wait for the Promise of the Father [Pentecost].

The analogy with a Bible stash is also completely off. The Word of God is more than just the Bible: it is reality itself. When God speaks (hence, the "Word of God") reality itself comes into being.

Try thinking of the "Word of God" as being us using our "lips" to speak/express our hearts desire, et al. cf Exo.33:20-23 KJV. cf with Paul's conversion experience on the road.

Furthermore, in Genesis, God says "Let us make man in our image." God could not have been speaking to the Angels, for they are not like man. Nor is their image static. However, Christ, being One with God, who would become man, would logically have an image, that man could be formed in likeness of. Thus, from before the inception of man, Christ was with God, as supported and derived from the Scriptures.

I believe you mean to say that the "Word of God" was with God from the beginning. Christ being a title given Jesus, the son, the man who needed to be proven that by it [process] would "win" the victory for both God and mankind. . . Sound reasonable?

 

[Cross Reference]

Jsands, please exegete this passage:

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:5-11 (KJV)

 

[jamie]

Christ is from the Greek Christo which means anointed.

Jesus was anointed by the Spirit. He is destined to be Israel's king.

In Daniel the word Messiah means anointed, and anointed means anointed.

By Yah Shua are you referring to Shiloh who is to come?

If so why not just say Shiloh?

 

[Truster]

Jesus was anointed by the Spirit. He is destined to be Israel's king.

In Daniel the word Messiah means anointed, and anointed means anointed.

By Yah Shua are you referring to Shiloh who is to come?

If so why not just say Shiloh?

It must be your role in life to spread ignorance.

 

[jamie]

It must be your role in life to spread ignorance.

Why do you consider scripture ignorance?

Wait, I get it, you didn't know the person Shiloh is the name of he who is to come.

Well, live and learn.

 

[Truster]

Why do you consider scripture ignorance?

Wait, I get it, you didn't the person Shiloh is the name of he who is to come.

Well, live and learn.

Stop trying to explain things you have no comprehension of.

 

[jamie]

Can you sufficiently prove this? And from what source?

"Jesus answered and said to him, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.'" (Matthew 16:17)

In what way was the Father's message revealed?

Hint: It was not by smartphone. The internet was not yet invented.

Some people can hear with more than their ears.

"But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you." (Matthew 10:19-20)

The Spirit of the Father is holy and is sometimes referred to as the holy Spirit.

 

[jamie]

Can you sufficiently prove this?

Paul said, "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good."

It's your responsibility to prove whatever it is you believe, not mine.

 

[jamie]

Stop trying to explain things you have no comprehension of.

Stop trying to quench God's Spirit. Why not work with him?

It would be to your advantage.

 

[Truster]

Stop trying to quench God's Spirit. Why not work with him?

It would be to your advantage.

You have no idea beyond your parrot fashion use of words.

 

[nikolai_42]

Was the man Jesus God before He was Glorified or was His humanity simply speaking from a divine disposition?

I sincerely ask without a religious agenda.

I think a quote from a passage you have put up makes it pretty clear that He had to be :

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Philippians 2:5-7

He took on the form of a servant even though He was in the form of God. If He actually became a servant, then I can't see how He wasn't already actually God.

And as to His glory, whose glory is in view here :

But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
John 12:37-42

That "He" certainly refers to Christ. He was glorified before He humbled Himself. But He was also glorified before Creation :

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 17:4-5

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The Incarnation of Our Lord Explained

The Incarnation of Our Lord Explained

Was the man Jesus God before He was Glorified or was His humanity simply speaking from a divine disposition?

I sincerely ask without a religious agenda.

Our Lord was fully God and fully man in an indissoluble union whereby the second subsistence of the Trinity assumed a human nature that cannot be separated, divided, mixed, or confused.

One can best understand this mystical union (together united in one distinguishable subsistence) by examining what it is not, thus from the process of elimination determine what it must be.

The mystical union of the divine and human natures of Our Lord is not:

1. a denial that our Lord was truly God (Ebionites, Elkasites, Arians);
2. a dissimilar or different substance (anomoios) with the Father (semi-Arianism);
3. a denial that our Lord had a genuine human soul (Apollinarians);
4. a denial of a distinct subsistence in the Trinity (Dynamic Monarchianism);
5. God acting merely in the forms of the Son and Spirit (Modalistic Monarchianism/Sabellianism/United Pentecostal Church);
6. a mixture or change when the two natures were united (Eutychianism/Monophysitism);
7. two distinct subsistences (often called persons) (Nestorianism);
8. a denial of the true humanity of Christ (docetism);
9. a view that God the Son laid aside all or some of His divine attributes (kenoticism);
10. a view that there was a communication of the attributes between the divine and human natures (Lutheranism, with respect to the Lord's Supper); and
11. a view that our Lord existed independently as a human before God entered His body (Adoptionism).

The Chalcedonian Definition is one of the few statements that all of orthodox Christendom recognizes as the most faithful summary of the teachings of the Scriptures on the matter of the Incarnate Christ. The Chalcedonian Definition was the answer to the many heterodoxies identified above during the third century.

Please review the following to better understand what was taking place at the Incarnation:

http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/anhypostasis-what-kind-of-flesh-did-jesus-take

http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/enhypostasis-what-kind-of-flesh-did-the-word-become

AMR

 

[jamie]

Our Lord was fully God and fully man in an indissoluble union whereby the second subsistence of the Trinity assumed a human nature that cannot be separated, divided, mixed, or confused.

Yes, we know that. Jesus was made just like us.

"Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren" (Hebrews 2:17)

 

[oatmeal]

Check this out:

17 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. Exodus 33:17-23 (KJV)

Side note: Read to see grace is merited and not unmerited as some believe it is.

Please show me and explain to me the verse that supports your conclusion,

For that matter at hand, could you explain what relation your reply has with my post?

It is up to God and God alone to decide to whom He will be gracious to.

"will be gracious to whom I will be gracious,"

Where in those words that God spoke does any one else's will but God's enter in to His choice to be gracious?

We cannot earn grace, it is therefore unmerited, if grace were by works then grace is no more grace but debt.

God does not owe it to anyone to give grace, yet God is most definitely gracious

 

[oatmeal]

John's Gospel proves all of this wrong. It literally points (literally being a reference to actual literature) to Christ being the Word Incarnate. Thus, you entire prose on Jesus not being in the Beginning with God is entirely false.

The analogy with a Bible stash is also completely off. The Word of God is more than just the Bible: it is reality itself. When God speaks (hence, the "Word of God") reality itself comes into being.

Furthermore, in Genesis, God says "Let us make man in our image." God could not have been speaking to the Angels, for they are not like man. Nor is their image static. However, Christ, being One with God, who would become man, would logically have an image, that man could be formed in likeness of. Thus, from before the inception of man, Christ was with God, as supported and derived from the Scriptures.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Yes, logos refers to Christ, even as it refers to God and to scripture. That is plain to see.

Does God want us to know him? Yes, he does. What God's plan to communicate His nature to others? By revelation to the holy men of God that spoke and wrote the words in the word that God wanted spoken and written.

But as the poem states I would rather see a sermon than hear one, thus God provided a man who would willfully and freely live God's words in His word perfectly, His son did that. Thus we have God's word in the flesh. This was God's plan that He announced to the Devil, the serpent, in Genesis 3:15

Of course, the existence of God and some aspects of His nature are revealed in the heaven and the earth that He created... but that was not enough, God wanted a written record for our benefit.

How does anyone know about God? Did Jesus appear to you to teach you all you need to know about God? He has not appeared to me. Oh, well. But what I do have is God's word, His logos in writing, that is how I know Jesus Christ His son and thus I learn from the son's life who His God and my God, His Father and my Father is

As I stated, Christ was with God in God's foreknowledge, God does have perfect foreknowledge, and He knows all His works from the beginning.

Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

The son of God, Jesus Christ is the son of God, not God the son.

All sons have a beginning and an origination. Jesus Christ though planned by and foreknown by God His Father did not exist until he was conceived and born

 

[oatmeal]

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him
was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:1-3

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him
was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:1-3

 

[Cross Reference]

Our Lord was fully God and fully man in an indissoluble union whereby the second subsistence of the Trinity assumed a human nature that cannot be separated, divided, mixed, or confused.

One can best understand this mystical union (together united in one distinguishable subsistence) by examining what it is not, thus from the process of elimination determine what it must be.

The mystical union of the divine and human natures of Our Lord is not:

1. a denial that our Lord was truly God (Ebionites, Elkasites, Arians);
2. a dissimilar or different substance (anomoios) with the Father (semi-Arianism);
3. a denial that our Lord had a genuine human soul (Apollinarians);
4. a denial of a distinct subsistence in the Trinity (Dynamic Monarchianism);
5. God acting merely in the forms of the Son and Spirit (Modalistic Monarchianism/Sabellianism/United Pentecostal Church);
6. a mixture or change when the two natures were united (Eutychianism/Monophysitism);
7. two distinct subsistences (often called persons) (Nestorianism);
8. a denial of the true humanity of Christ (docetism);
9. a view that God the Son laid aside all or some of His divine attributes (kenoticism);
10. a view that there was a communication of the attributes between the divine and human natures (Lutheranism, with respect to the Lord's Supper); and
11. a view that our Lord existed independently as a human before God entered His body (Adoptionism).

The Chalcedonian Definition is one of the few statements that all of orthodox Christendom recognizes as the most faithful summary of the teachings of the Scriptures on the matter of the Incarnate Christ. The Chalcedonian Definition was the answer to the many heterodoxies identified above during the third century.

Please review the following to better understand what was taking place at the Incarnation:

http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/anhypostasis-what-kind-of-flesh-did-jesus-take

http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/enhypostasis-what-kind-of-flesh-did-the-word-become

AMR

Thank you Dr Sproul.

Jesus was also tutored for 30 years, baptized in water and with the Holy Spirit before being sent into the world. After He finished His business, He was glorified. Instead of continuing back into Glory He came down off the mountain to die the cross to make it possible for you to do the same thing. Now where do you want to go from here? Do you really want to make this all to be about saving man from Hell, making a way for to go to Heaven when he dies, or is there something else much deeper for us to understand about why God created man, you never speak of like Jesus was God's representation of what normal man was intended to be and use that as the foundation of the "Why" of Jesus God could not do because He was God?

 

[Cross Reference]

The son of God, Jesus Christ is the son of God, not God the son.

And the Jesus, the man, born of Mary was, Glorified. What does that mean because Jesus had already believed Himself eqhal to God?

All sons have a beginning and an origination. Jesus Christ though planned by and foreknown by God His Father did not exist until he was conceived and born.

I agree. Jesus was the Body that was prepared for the "Word of God" to "inhabit" not to take charge of but to submit to. When Jesus understood that He inturn, submitted to the "Word of God". They walked in "equality" with Jesus, the man, having the final say, though it was never different from the Will of the Father, Gethsemane being His home away from Home.

Jesus, the man, WON the victory the night before He hung the cross!! He won it completely as a MAN.

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this." Isaiah 9:6-7 (KJV)

"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" Philippians 3:10 (KJV) cf John 17:3.


"I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing". Philippians 3:14-16 (KJV)

 

[Cross Reference]

"will be gracious to whom I will be gracious,"

Where in those words that God spoke does any one else's will but God's enter in to His choice to be gracious?

We cannot earn grace, it is therefore unmerited, if grace were by works then grace is no more grace but debt.

God does not owe it to anyone to give grace, yet God is most definitely gracious"

.

Grace is by the favor of God. Don't confuse it with His mercy. Grace is not unmerited. Nor is this on topic and not about salvation from Hell.

Lets move on.