Unless YOU believe that I am He (God) YOU Will Die in YOUR Sins, John 8:24

[CherubRam]

The reason that I inserted God into that scripture is because the bible teaches that Jesus is God. If you don't believe that Jesus is God that is your problem

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" 1 John 5:7.

"For in him dwells all the fullness of the GODHEAD bodily" Colossians 2:9.

Yahshua did not say he was God, he said he was a (elohiym / god) from heaven.

John 10:33-34
33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be [a god] God."
34 Yashua answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

Yahshua was asked if he was the Messiah, he was not asked if he was God. It has always been understood that the Messiah would be a god from Heaven.

John 10:24. The Jews who were there gathered around him, asking, “How long will you keep us in suspense, if you’re the Messiah, tell us plainly?”

Godhead is a recent made up term and is not biblical.

NIV
1 John 5:6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony.

Footnotes:
a.1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the fourteenth century)

Do you know the difference between the truth and a lie?

 

[Ben Masada]

Unless you believe that I am He (God) you will die in your sins, John 8:24

Unless you believe that I am He (God) you will die in your sins, John 8:24

Then we have in verse 31, I mean John 8:31, that Jesus was talking to the Jews who had believed in him. Then to these Jews who had believed in him he said, "You are children of the Devil." Does it make any sense to you? To me it doesn't. How could Jesus call the Jews who had believed in him children of the Devil? (John 8:44)That's why those Jews who had believed in Jesus got upset and revealed a secret that Jesus had been born out of fornication. (John 8:41) In fact, Josephus in his book "Wars of the Jews" mentions that in the First Century rapes of Jewish young ladies by the Romans in Israel was catastrophic. Thousands of Jewish children had been born out of fornication in Israel.

 

[Robert Pate]

Then we have in verse 31, I mean John 8:31, that Jesus was talking to the Jews who had believed in him. Then to these Jews who had believed in him he said, "You are children of the Devil." Does it make any sense to you? To me it doesn't. How could Jesus call the Jews who had believed in him children of the Devil? (John 8:44)That's why those Jews who had believed in Jesus got upset and revealed a secret that Jesus had been born out of fornication. (John 8:41) In fact, Josephus in his book "Wars of the Jews" mentions that in the First Century rapes of Jewish young ladies by the Romans in Israel was catastrophic. Thousands of Jewish children had been born out of fornication in Israel.

You are desperate to believe lies and fairy tales.

Someday you will have to bow before him, Philippians 2:10, 11,

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It is our personal responsibility to find the truth and believe it.

If you find yourself in hell after the judgment don't blame God for it. It is not Gods responsibility to save you. He has done all that he can do to provide you with savation. He has given his only "Begotten Son" for your salvation. It is your responsibility to...
"Enter in at the strait gate" Matthew 7:13, 14. There are two ways for you to go, there is the strait gate which leads to eternal life and there is the broad way that leads to destruction. It is your personal resonsibility to seek out and find the strait gate that leads to eternal life. That is the purpose of this scripture. Jesus gives you a commandment, "Enter in at the strait gate".

The "strait gate" is Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life: no man can come to the Father but by me, John 14:6. There, I have just told you the way to the strait gate. Why do you want to continue on the broad way that leads to destruction? The broadway is the way of man, it is the way of religion. The broad way is the way that seems right unto a man, but it is the way of death and destruction, Proverbs 14:12.

The reason that the "Broad Way" is broad is because there are "many there be that go that way". It has to be broad to accomodate the masses that have rejected the strait gate and are continuing on the broad way that leads to death and destruction. If I was driving down the street and I saw that your house was on fire I would stop and bang on your door and tell you that your house was on fire. I am banging on your door NOW to tell you that if you are not totally and completely trusting in Jesus Christ to save you, YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE.

"Good guy list"

 

[Ben Masada]

Jesus is either God or he is a man. I believe that he is both.

And I believe he is neither. Neither God nor a man any more. He is dead. About 2,000 years already. Since he was a Jew, he has never been raised from the grave.

If he is just a man, then that means that he was born after Adam and he is a sinner. If he was a sinner it would not be possible for him to atone for the sins of the world. God requires a perfect sacrifice for the sins of humanity.

He was but not just a man but a Jewish man whose Faith was Judaism.

Jesus had to be both God and man to save us. Jesus is God's new creation and Gods new humanity. Only God can raise people from the dead. Only God can turn water into wine.

God can do any thing and every thing He wants but one, the thing you wish He did or should have done. What saves us is not another man but obedience to God's Law. (Isa. 1:18,19) According to the Prophets no one can save another but himself through the use of his or her freewill to obey God's Word. (Jer. 31:30; Eze. 18:20)

"Unless you believe that he is who he claims to be, you will die in your sins".

Jesus claimed to be a simple "son of man" which mean a mortal man. Any other claim was according to the gospel of Paul which had nothing with the gospel of Jesus.

We are saved by faith in Christ. You can't have faith in just a man.

We are saved by obedience of God's Law. Jesus himself, with his parable of the Richman and Lazarus, implied that the only way to escape hell-fire is by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:31)

 

[CherubRam]

Then we have in verse 31, I mean John 8:31, that Jesus was talking to the Jews who had believed in him. Then to these Jews who had believed in him he said, "You are children of the Devil." Does it make any sense to you? To me it doesn't. How could Jesus call the Jews who had believed in him children of the Devil? (John 8:44)That's why those Jews who had believed in Jesus got upset and revealed a secret that Jesus had been born out of fornication. (John 8:41) In fact, Josephus in his book "Wars of the Jews" mentions that in the First Century rapes of Jewish young ladies by the Romans in Israel was catastrophic. Thousands of Jewish children had been born out of fornication in Israel.

You are grabbing at straws Ben. The FIRST coming of the Messiah is that of a suffering Messiah, a message many Jews did not want to hear. It is understood that the Messiah is a (elohiym / god) from heaven. Some of the Jews present were looking for a way to murder the Messiah.

A Body You Prepared For Me

Psalm 40:6 Some Hebrew and Septuagint manuscripts: “but a body you have prepared for me…”

Hebrews 10: 5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;

Micah 5:2
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”
A body you have prepared for me.

Psalm 40 commentary.
N.I.V. foot note for Psalms 40:6 reads: “Hebrew; Septuagint: but a body you have prepared for me. (See also Symmachus and Theodotion)” End of quote. Symmachus the Ebonite was a late 2nd century author of one of the Greek versions of the Old Testament.

Theodotion 200 A.D.
Theodotion was a Jewish scholar, perhaps working in Ephesus, who translated the Hebrew Bible into Greek. Whether he was revising the Septuagint, or was working from Hebrew manuscripts that represented a parallel tradition that has not survived, and is debated. His finished version, which filled some lacunae in the Septuagint version of the Book of Jeremiah and Book of Job, formed one column in Origen's Hexapla. (The Hexapla presented six Hebrew and Greek texts side-by-side: two Greek versions, by Aquila of Sinope and Symmachus, preceding the Septuagint, and Theodotian's version following it, apparently reflecting a contemporary understanding of their historical sequence.

Theodotion's translation was so widely copied in the Early Christian church, that it superseded the Septuagint Book of Daniel. Jerome, in his preface to Daniel records the rejection of the Septuagint version in Christian usage, asserting that its translation was very faulty.

Although Theodotion was Anti-Christ, it may not have occurred to him to change the Hebrew Psalm script from reading: “But a body you have prepared for me.”

 

[everready]

John Chapter 3

John Chapter 3

Looks like you've read portions of scripture Ben have you read this?

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


everready

 

[Robert Pate]

And I believe he is neither. Neither God nor a man any more. He is dead. About 2,000 years already. Since he was a Jew, he has never been raised from the grave.



He was but not just a man but a Jewish man whose Faith was Judaism.



God can do any thing and every thing He wants but one, the thing you wish He did or should have done. What saves us is not another man but obedience to God's Law. (Isa. 1:18,19) According to the Prophets no one can save another but himself through the use of his or her freewill to obey God's Word. (Jer. 31:30; Eze. 18:20)



Jesus claimed to be a simple "son of man" which mean a mortal man. Any other claim was according to the gospel of Paul which had nothing with the gospel of Jesus.



We are saved by obedience of God's Law. Jesus himself, with his parable of the Richman and Lazarus, implied that the only way to escape hell-fire is by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:31)

The law is the very nature and character of God.

Are you telling us that you have the nature and the character of God?

Paul said, "By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Are you going to be able to stand in the judgment, look God in the eye and say, "I am as good as you"?

 

[Ben Masada]

Jesus is God. He is the second person of the Godhead.

"For there are THREE that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit: AND THESE THREE ARE ONE" 1 John 5:7.

No one can really understand how God can be three persons in one. It is beyond human comprehension.

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven and that are in the earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions or principalities or powers: all things were created by him and for him. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist" Colossians 1:15, 16, 17.

You will not go wrong if you believe that Jesus is God. But you will go wrong if you believe that he is not.

The Lord Almighty is of an Absolute Oneness and according to Prophet Isaiah, there must not be any one else to even compare with the Lord. (Isaiah 46:5) "Thou shall have no other god besides Me." (Exodus 20:3) That's the first commandment of the Lord in the Decalogue. The Firstborn of the Almighty Yahweh Is Israel as a people and not on an individual basis. "Israel is My firstborn son. So, let My son go that he may serve Me." (Exodus 4:22,23) The Tanach was the gospel of Jesus, not the NT.

 

[Robert Pate]

The Lord Almighty is of an Absolute Oneness and according to Prophet Isaiah, there must not be any one else to even compare with the Lord. (Isaiah 46:5) "Thou shall have no other god besides Me." (Exodus 20:3) That's the first commandment of the Lord in the Decalogue. The Firstborn of the Almighty Yahweh Is Israel as a people and not on an individual basis. "Israel is My firstborn son. So, let My son go that he may serve Me." (Exodus 4:22,23) The Tanach was the gospel of Jesus, not the NT.

The rejection of the New Testament is the rejection of your Messiah. You are determined to die in your sins.

 

[Ben Masada]

The law is the very nature and character of God. Are you telling us that you have the nature and the character of God?

I am letting you know that we, the Jewish People are under the character and nature of HaShem; yes, we are. Now, if we remain as a People before the Lord forever. There is nothing wrong with this affirmation. If we obey Him faithfully and keep His Covenant, we shall continue being His treasured possession among all the peoples. Indeed, all the earth is the Lord's but we shall be to Him a kingdom of priests and a holy nation." (Exod.
19:5,6)

Paul said, "By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

And Paul was right on this one. Indeed, during the time he had no knowledge of the Law, he had become a victim of Hellenist carnal behavior that caused him to serve two masters: The Law in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. (Romans 7:25)

Are you going to be able to stand in the judgment, look God in the eye and say, "I am as good as you"?

Sorry, but now you have entered into the joke mood.

 

[Ben Masada]

The rejection of the New Testament is the rejection of your Messiah. You are determined to die in your sins.

No, I am not. I am not saying any thing wrong. We are no longer praying for the coming of the Messiah because the light has finally shone upon ourselves to see that the Messiah is already back from the Diaspora. If you read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13 you will find out that our Messiah is already back. Habakkuk says that "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord. Aka Israel himself, the Firstborn son of God Almighty. If you don't believe it, read Exodus 4:22,23.

 

[Robert Pate]

I am letting you know that we, the Jewish People are under the character and nature of HaShem; yes, we are. Now, if we remain as a People before the Lord forever. There is nothing wrong with this affirmation. If we obey Him faithfully and keep His Covenant, we shall continue being His treasured possession among all the peoples. Indeed, all the earth is the Lord's but we shall be to Him a kingdom of priests and a holy nation." (Exod.
19:5,6)



And Paul was right on this one. Indeed, during the time he had no knowledge of the Law, he had become a victim of Hellenist carnal behavior that caused him to serve two masters: The Law in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. (Romans 7:25)



Sorry, but now you have entered into the joke mood.

No joke. To be under the law is to be under condemnation.

The only way that you can escape the condemnation is to be "In Christ", Romans 8:1.

 

[keypurr]

The Bible teaches that Jesus is God, John 10:30.

Nope, it doesn't. It teaches that he is the SON of God.

 

[Totton Linnet]

What the Father is the Son must be also

what is your son....a rabbit?

 

[KingdomRose]

The reason that I inserted God into that scripture is because the bible teaches that Jesus is God. If you don't believe that Jesus is God that is your problem

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" 1 John 5:7.

"For in him dwells all the fullness of the GODHEAD bodily" Colossians 2:9.

No the Bible does NOT teach that Jesus is God, and your inserting "God" into a scripture just makes you guilty of ADDING TO the Scriptures. God doesn't like anyone adding to the Scriptures. (Deut.4:2: Rev.22:18) The problem is with you.

I John 5:7 is well-known to scholars as a much later corruption of the scriptures, inserted by some biased scribe. Earlier manuscripts do not contain this verse.

To say that "in him dwells all the fulness of the divine qualities" at Colossians 2:9 does not make Jesus God. It also says in Colossians that Jesus is the IMAGE OF God, not God.

You are perpetrating your own viewpoint into the Scriptures and adding to what they actually say.

 

[KingdomRose]

Jesus fulfills the law for us.

But faith and believing is something that we must do.

"Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Which "Lord"? Sure, Romans 10:13 refers to Jesus, but does Acts 2:21 refer to Jesus? No...Peter was quoting from Joel 2:28-32. The Divine Name is there: YHWH, commonly translated as "Jehovah." They are not the same Lord, so...we must call on BOTH of them to be saved.

"Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has BOTH the Father and the Son." (2John 9)

So, to summarize....Jesus and God (Jehovah) are not the same and are two distinct persons. We must recognize and honor them BOTH to be saved. Jesus is God's SON, as he said, and Jehovah is God. This is what the Scriptures actually say, without any additions.

 

[KingdomRose]

It doesn't say.

Yes it does. Verse 22: "The Jews then began to say..." Verse 23: "He went on to say to THEM..."

The Jews (the religious leaders).


:wave2: Hello-o. Awake yet?

 

[KingdomRose]

So, we're down to Jesus speaking specifically to those scribes and Pharisees. Thank you B57. They seemed to have a real problem with Jesus in the NT. Do you think folk here on TOL are scribesYes, excellent and Pharisees, Robert? You seem to be painting with a rather large brush in your OP, don't you think? Jesus was talking to those scribes and Pharisees denying Jesus' divine origin/Paternity (John 8:13 KJV, John 8:19 KJV), and plotting Jesus' crucifixion (John 8:28 KJV, John 8:37 KJV). And, you Robert, put folk on TOL into that same category as those scribes and Pharisees in you OP statement:



Rather broad accusation, don't you think? Furthermore, those scribes and Pharisees plotting Jesus' crucifixion wanted Jesus crucified because THEY said Jesus was God, isn't that what you're saying, Robert? Jesus is God?

John 10:31, 32, 33, KJV "Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32) Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works to ye stone me? 33) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."​

Did Jesus make Himself God, Robert? Jesus continued:

John 10:34 KJV "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in you law, I said, Ye are gods?​

So, it wasn't Jesus who was God. According to Jesus' response, those who were plotting His crucifixion were gods. Where in the Books of Moses were 'they' referred to as gods, Robert? Jesus continued:

John 10:35 KJV "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;​

Who was 'he' in "If he called them gods...", Robert? Where in the Books of Moses were 'they' called gods? Who was 'he' that called them gods in the OT? Jesus continued:

John 10:36 KJV "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the son of God?"​

So, Jesus said the FATHER sanctified Him, and SENT Him into the world. Those scribes and Pharisees, seeking Jesus' death, said Jesus made Himself God. You're saying Jesus made Himself God. Aren't you taking the same position as those scribes and Pharisees seeking Jesus' crucifixion, Robert? Jesus said somewhere in OT Scripture 'they' were gods. And Jesus concluded His defense that He said He was the "son of God." To sum this up:

Those scribes and Pharisees said Jesus made Himself out to be God. Jesus said they were gods. And Jesus said He was the son of God.

Yours is a pretty haughty position accusing virtually everyone but yourself with your opening OP. Do you know good from evil, Robert:

Genesis 3:4, 5, KJV "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5) For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."​

Didn't Jesus say those scribes and Pharisees were gods as mentioned in the OT?

Well, it just sounds to me that you've taken the same position as those conspiring to kill Jesus. They said Jesus made Himself out to be God, also. While Jesus said they were gods, and He was the Son of God. That's pretty interesting.

But, getting back to my specific question... who were those scribes and Pharisees seeking Jesus' crucifixion in John 8 where you took John 8:24 out of context? Those scribes and Pharisees said they were "Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man" (John 8:33 KJV). I don't suppose it occurred to you those scribes and Pharisees seeking Jesus' crucifixion were evidently not Israelites who HAD been in bondage in Egypt. That's pretty interesting, also.

So, in other words Robert... I seem to get the impression you really don't know who Jesus was talking to in your OP. B57 got them narrowed down to scribes and Pharisees. And, there seems to be a bit more definition laying on the table, here. So, those instigators of Jesus' crucifixion, who said Jesus was God, were Abraham's seed, affirmed by Jesus in John 8:37 KJV... but, they weren't "Abraham's children" (John 8:39 KJV). Maybe I'm splitting hairs just a bit, but didn't Paul hint around at this in Romans 9:6, 7, 8? Sure Robert, you've taken John 8:24 KJV out of context:



Those Jesus was speaking to in that verse, instigating His death (John 8:28 KJV, John 8:37 KJV, John 10:31 KJV, John 10:32 KJV), said Jesus was God (John 10:33 KJV), just like you're saying. Quite interesting!


kayaker

Yes, excellent reasoning---and what the Bible actually SAYS, kayaker. Robert would stand with the Pharisees in calling Jesus God.

Jesus himself said that he was GOD'S SON (John 10:36) and that the Father (Jehovah) was his Father and God. He said to Mary: "I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to MY GOD and your God." (John 20:17)

The Pharisees accused him falsely.

 

[KingdomRose]

The Bible teaches that Jesus is God, John 10:30.

Didn't you read what the Bible says ELSEWHERE?

Also, John 10:30 does not teach the Jesus is God. He was saying the he and God were UNITED. They AGREED with each other.

I have asked you to comment on John 17:20-23 but you have not responded to that. It says that Jesus' DISCIPLES would be "one" just as the Father and Christ were "one." Are the disciples also God?


"I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they may also be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one."


The Father and Jesus are "one," and Jesus prayed that his disciples would ALSO be "one" with them. Do they ALL make up "God"?