Under the Law or "In Christ"

[marhig]

No religion is a good thing. There are many religious people on this Forum that are trusting in their religion to save them.

No, there's no religion that saves, there's only one saviour and that's Jesus Christ.

 

[Epoisses]

If you have the holy spirit in the heart, you will obey the laws and Jesus said that there are two laws that covered them all, both are based on love.

Matthew 22

Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

If we love God with our all, and our neighbour as ourselves then we won't break the laws, because we won't disobey God and we won't hurt others. And the spirit will be guiding us away from sin, it's up to us to listen. As Joshua said, choose this day whom will serve, but as for me and my house, we will serve the lord! I'm with Joshua!

The law is based on effort and carnal obedience or will worship. Obey and live, disobey and die. It's all about human performance which is the exact opposite of Love. Law and Love are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

[Nick M]

I'm of no denomination, I have faith in God and I follow Jesus and believe that he is Christ the son of the living God. My religion is the one spoken of by James.

James 1:27

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction,*and*to keep himself unspotted from the world.

So nothing about Paul's gospel, where he says by which we are saved.

 

[Nick M]

Lord Lord, didn't I.....

Depart from me you who are lawless. I never knew you.

 

[Ben Masada]

No, there's no religion that saves, there's only one saviour and that's Jesus Christ.

And tell me Marhig, what does Jesus save from? I am asking because the world is many times worse today than from before Jesus was born, lived and died. If he couldn't have saved any one when while still alive, how could he now save that he is dead? Faith perhaps? There is no credit to faith if it is not confirmed by the workings of obedience. Faith without the workings of the Law is akin to a body without the breath of life. (James 2:26)

 

[marhig]

And tell me Marhig, what does Jesus save from? I am asking because the world is many times worse today than from before Jesus was born, lived and died. If he couldn't have saved any one when while still alive, how could he now save that he is dead? Faith perhaps? There is no credit to faith if it is not confirmed by the workings of obedience. Faith without the workings of the Law is akin to a body without the breath of life. (James 2:26)

Jesus was a Jew, he fulfilled the laws. I believe that if we follow Jesus we will abide by the laws also. Jesus came as an example and showed us the way. He showed us the life that God requires us to live by. How to deny sin and obey God. He said, deny yourself, take up your cross daily and follow me. Those who do not take up their cross are not worthy of me. I believe there are works to do, as you rightly quoted James. And those works are to obey God deny the flesh and live out the works of the holy spirit within our hearts. It says in the Bible that we are reconciled to God by the death of Jesus, but we are saved by his life!

 

[Ben Masada]

Lord Lord, didn't I.....

Depart from me you who are lawless. I never knew you.

Wow! Nick, if Jesus came alive today and visited this forum, almost every one among us would have to depart from him for being all lawless, beginning with Paul who took pleasure in being released from the Law to last among us who claims that the Law has been abolished. (Rom. 7:6)

 

[marhig]

Romans 3

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[marhig]

Lord Lord, didn't I.....

Depart from me you who are lawless. I never knew you.

Here he's talking about workers of iniquity. Which shows you that were not once saved always saved. Through faith we are saved from our past sins once we repent, then were must obey God and not wilfully sin. As Paul said

Hebrews 10

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

 

[Ben Masada]

1 - Jesus was a Jew, he fulfilled the laws.

2 - I believe that if we follow Jesus we will abide by the laws also. Jesus came as an example and showed us the way. He showed us the life that God requires us to live by. How to deny sin and obey God. He said, deny yourself, take up your cross daily and follow me. Those who do not take up their cross are not worthy of me. I believe there are works to do, as you rightly quoted James. And those works are to obey God deny the flesh and live out the works of the holy spirit within our hearts.

3 - It says in the Bible that we are reconciled to God by the death of Jesus, but we are saved by his life!

1 - I am glad to see that the first item you use to identify a Jew is the fulfillment of the Law;

2 - I am also very glad to read your testimony that to follow Jesus, we must abide by the Law. You are also right on that one because Jesus himself commanded to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

3 - That's in the gospel of Paul. In the gospel of Jesus we read that, to reconcile ourselves with God, so that our sins, from scarlet red become as white as snow, we must repent and return to the obedience of God's Word. (Isaiah 1:18.19) Also, in the gospel of Jesus we read that no one can die for the reconciliation and salvation of another. (Jeremiah 31:30; Ezekiel 18:20)

 

[Ben Masada]

Romans 3

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Right but, Paul was glad to inform that he had been released from the Law, (Rom. 7:6) That Jesus had been the end of the Law. (Rom. 10:4) And that the Law had been abolished on the cross. (Ephes. 2:15) And last but not least, Paul was happy to uphold the Law though in his mind only, while serving sin in his flesh. (Rom. 7:25)
That's no different from serving two masters.

 

[God's Truth]

In the judgment there are only two position in which we will be found. We will either be found under the law or we will be found to be "In Christ". To be found under the law is to be judged according to the law. To be judged according to the law means that from the time that you were born you have never had one evil thought or committed one sin. If you have committed only one sin, then you will be condemned.

Adam and Eve only committed one sin. They ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This one sin caused them to be condemned and banished from the garden. The law says, "The soul that sins will die" Ezekiel 18:20. This is more than physical death, this is spiritual death, which means eternal separation from God.

What does it mean to be "In Christ?" Paul wrote, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death" Romans 8:1, 2. What is the flesh? The flesh is those things that we do, It is religion. What is the Spirit of life "In Christ?". It is the Gospel and those things that Christ has done. When I tell someone that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. I am speaking of the Spirit. The Spirit always testifies of Jesus, John 15:26.

The Holy Spirit and the Gospel are inseparable. When the Gospel is preached the Holy Spirit is there to convict people of their need for Christ. On the day of Pentecost over 8000 Jews heard and believed Peter's Gospel, Acts 2:14. "So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. This was most certainly the case on the day of Pentecost. Peter preached Christ. They heard, they believed and they were saved, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

It is so sad that you still have no idea.

 

[Ben Masada]

No religion is a good thing. There are many religious people on this Forum that are trusting in their religion to save them.

Not to talk about religion but still about the Law, I tell you this: Obey the Law and you are saved. If you don't believed it, go ahead and use the opposite to prove I am wrong. If you can do that, I promise you I'll be ready to give in to Christianity. I only require that you speak nothing against the gospel of Jesus
which was the Tanach. Do we have a deal?

 

[God's Truth]

Not to talk about religion but still about the Law, I tell you this: Obey the Law and you are saved. If you don't believed it, go ahead and use the opposite to prove I am wrong. If you can do that, I promise you I'll be ready to give in to Christianity. I only require that you speak nothing against the gospel of Jesus
which was the Tanach. Do we have a deal?

Pate and you are both so confused and watching you too discuss together is like watching tail chasers.

 

[Ben Masada]

No, there's no religion that saves, there's only one saviour and that's Jesus Christ.

I totally agree that there is no religion that saves but, what did Jesus do to save us? The world has become many times worse after his death than before he was born. So, how did he save us? If you are ready to say that's because he died on the cross, you will be denying the Prophets of the Most High whose writing still say today that no one can die for the salvation of another. (Jeremiah 31:30; Ezekiel 18:20)

 

[marhig]

I totally agree that there is no religion that saves but, what did Jesus do to save us? The world has become many times worse after his death than before he was born. So, how did he save us? If you are ready to say that's because he died on the cross, you will be denying the Prophets of the Most High whose writing still say today that no one can die for the salvation of another. (Jeremiah 31:30; Ezekiel 18:20)

I'm just on my way out, but you'll be very surprised by the way I believe, were not saved my death but by life. God wouldn't come down from heaven into flesh and be crucified by wicked men. God wouldn't be killed by Satan in any way. I don't believe that Jesus is God. Or that were saved by his death on the natural cross.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 2

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known*it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Peter in Acts 3

But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;*And killed the Prince of life

They wouldn't have said this if we are saved by Jesus Christ being crucified

We're saved by his life!

Romans 5

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life

I'll answer anything else later.

 

[marhig]

I totally agree that there is no religion that saves but, what did Jesus do to save us? The world has become many times worse after his death than before he was born. So, how did he save us? If you are ready to say that's because he died on the cross, you will be denying the Prophets of the Most High whose writing still say today that no one can die for the salvation of another. (Jeremiah 31:30; Ezekiel 18:20)

He saved us from our past sins through faith and repentance, Jesus was saving before his death.

 

[Ben Masada]

I'm of no denomination, I have faith in God and I follow Jesus and believe that he is Christ the son of the living God. My religion is the one spoken of by James.

James 1:27

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction,*and*to keep himself unspotted from the world.

So, Jesus was the son of the Living God, wasn't he Marhig? As I read this testimony of yours above, it came to my mind not to disagree but, not on an individual basis. Jesus was indeed son of God but within the collective concept as part of Israel and only during his 33 years of life. Now, read Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My son, said the Lord; let My son go that he may serve Me." Now, who said that Jesus as an individual was the son of God? Paul if you read Acts 9:20. Now, you can choose whom to believe: Paul or the Lord Almighty? What do you say?

 

[Ben Masada]

He saved us from our past sins through faith and repentance, Jesus was saving before his death.

Our past sins Marhig! How about the sins committed afterwards? As I can see, you are already way down entrapped into the gospel of Paul. He implied that Christians have been released from the Law. (Rom. 7:6) Since there is no more laws for Christians, there is no sin to transgress the Law, no matter what they do. Is that so Marhig?

 

[Ben Masada]

I'm just on my way out, but you'll be very surprised by the way I believe, were not saved my death but by life. God wouldn't come down from heaven into flesh and be crucified by wicked men. God wouldn't be killed by Satan in any way. I don't believe that Jesus is God. Or that were saved by his death on the natural cross.

Too confusing Marhig! Think it true and, on your way back I hope you will bring a better explanation for the above.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 2 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known*it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Yes, the Romans did not know what they were doing but, they did make up for what they did by adopting Christianity as the official religion of the Empire at the time of Emperor Constantine.

Peter in Acts 3 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;*And killed the Prince of life.

And do you believe that Marhig? Do you know who wrote the book of Acts? Luke, a Hellenist disciple of Paul. Peter was used as the author to add apostolic credibility to the Church of Paul aka Christianity. (Acts 11:26)Peter was too loyal a Jew to write any thing against his People in captivity under Roman occupiers. Besides, Peter was reported as being ignorant and, illiterate people don't write books. (Acts 4:13)

They wouldn't have said this if we are saved by Jesus Christ being crucified. We're saved by his life!

That's something new but... how can we be saved by his life if he is dead? Jesus was a loyal Jew whose gospel was the Tanach. It says in his gospel that, once dead, no one will ever return from the grave. Here's where in his gospel this is written: II Samuel 12:23; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; etc.

Romans 5. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

That's not what the gospel of Jesus says. It says that, if we want to reconcile ourselves with the Almighty so that our sins, from scarlet red become as white as
snow, we must repent, and return to the obedience of the Law. (Isaiah 1:18-19)