Unconscious Women Should Be Left to Die

[Town Heretic]

I'll tell you that the same line of reasoning makes a woman's actual consent in the case of 1. abortion and 2. at least some sexual encounters, irrelevent.

You can tell me the moon is made of cheese, but you'll have to do more than that to make it meaningful.

 

[shagster01]

Once again, you are basically just agreeing with me: "Unless you actually opt out, your actual consent doesn't matter. Your consent is implicit (because we, by law, say so)."

No. Consent does matter. If you don't consent say so by wearing the standard "I DON'T CONSENT" band on your wrist.


Let's flip it around. Do you want to make decisions about your own body?

What if you are unconscious? Should I leave you to die even if you aren't wearing a DNR tag? Should I assume you are just too stupid to get one if you don't want me to touch you?

See, the law deals with this thing logically. You are dealing with it like a moron.

If you think I am agreeing with you, why do you keep arguing with me?

 

[quip]

If it is impossible to get her consent, and you are acting on her anyway (without her actual consent), then her actual consent doesn't matter. I'm not sure wheter or not this is a self-evident proposition, but if it isn't, it's pretty close.

Then you'll tell me about her implicit consent. But I'll note that implicit consent is not actual consent (just as having a habitual knowledge of french is not the same as actually speaking french). And once again, you grant my point: her actual consent does not matter in that case (i.e., it is irrelevent).

Note, Shagster, there are two and only two logically possible options here:

Either the unconscious woman's actual consent is relevent

or

the woman's actual consent is not relevent.

If it is not relevent, then it is irrelevent (that's what the word "irrelevent" means).

If it is relevent, you cannot act. If you can act, then her consent is not relevent, and, therefore, irrelevent.

Is it really so hard to admit this?

Here's an interesting read.

For emergency medicine specifically, the law acknowledges
that mechanistically imposing the duty of
informed consent may become detrimental to the
patient’s health and potentially to the patient’s life.
Therefore, the largest number of recognized exceptions
to the doctrine of informed consent comes from
the challenges posed in emergency medical circumstances.
The general rule is that, in certain emergency
medical situations, patient consent is presumed to exist
for medical treatment that addresses the emergency.

 

[Nazaroo]

:think:

Too much misogyny in your post to make a valid point ...

MANY men make the same exact argument (which makes them no less wrong). Should *those* unconscious men be left to die?

I wish his choice of thread title was less sensational and more accurate.
This makes the whole forum look bad.

 

[OCTOBER23]

In my opinion, Unconscious Women Should Be Left to Sleep.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Women, liberals say, have a right to privacy. What this means is that another person cannot, intentionally or unintentionally, violate a woman's bodily integrity, for example, by putting thing into her body, without her informed and expressed consent.

That's why liberals think that it's OK to murder unborn children. If a woman doesn't want that baby in her uterus, then hey, it's her body. If she didn't say "OK," then get that baby out of there!

Now, suppose that there is an unconscious woman who is on the verge of death (she had, say, a heart attack). A man is nearby, who is considering whether or not to give her mouth to mouth rescucitation. There are paramedics and doctors wondering whether they should administer treatment, possibly even invasive treatment (for example, a ventillator, IV fluids, etc).

There are people wondering whether or not they should move the woman to different surroundings (say, a hospital).

Based on liberal thinking, my answer is: "No. That woman is unconscious. She cannot give her informed, expressed consent, and she has a right to privacy. Respect her privacy rights! Leave her to die! "

Seems to me that by respecting her right to privacy you violate her right to life.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Do you know what a reductio ad absurdum is?

Yes. And you have failed in your example.