UK : Labour’s plan to introduce LGBT ed to 5 year olds is their best idea

[GFR7]

I'm not as hardline when it comes to actively punishing homosexuality as some here, but the idea of a society elevating sin to the same level as ethnic diversity or victims of genocide is just disgusting from my standpoint.

I'd keep it legal because I value freedom that much. But, it does have a corrosive effect on society, and public institutions, where they must exist, should never ENCOURAGE homosexuality.

I understand this position, and its logic. :up:

 

[Christian Liberty]

I understand this position, and its logic. :up:

Careful, aCW is going to find a way to construct this as support for sodomy.

 

[resodko]

And who should teach them this?

catholic priests

and clowns

 

[shagster01]

I'm not as hardline when it comes to actively punishing homosexuality as some here, but the idea of a society elevating sin to the same level as ethnic diversity or victims of genocide is just disgusting from my standpoint.

I'd keep it legal because I value freedom that much. But, it does have a corrosive effect on society, and public institutions, where they must exist, should never ENCOURAGE homosexuality.

I'm curious as to what corrosive effects it has, other than on your personal religious beliefs.

What do you find wrong about it outside of your religious position?

 

[Truths4yer]

I'm so tired of "Christians" ignoring the Bible. Admittedly, that pretty much applies to a lot of people here, not just you.

Presumably you'll want to forewarn kindergarteners of the punishment they face should they be verbally abusive then.
Leviticus 20:9: "Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death". Exodus 21:17 repeats this.
Matthew 15:4: "For God said... "Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death."

whatever they do know should be negative, because God designed the world in such a way as that it is negative.

In contrast to heterosexuality, which is driving uncontrolled population growth, which means we're exhausting the planet's finite resources and destroying what's left with huge amounts of waste.

Bradshaw & Brook, 2014, PNAS, 111(46), 16610–16615, DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1410465111
"The inexorable demographic momentum of the global human population is rapidly eroding Earth’s life-support system."

The above is simply one example study. Vastly more on the topic can be found in my essay at the following link:
http://homoresponse.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/the-detriment-of-heterosexuality.html

But, it does have a corrosive effect on society, and public institutions, where they must exist, should never ENCOURAGE homosexuality.

In what way does informing people of the existence of homosexuality equate to encouraging it?

The American Anthropological Association:
"The results of more than a century of anthropological research on households, kinship relationships, and families, across cultures and through time, provide no support whatsoever for the view that either civilization or viable social orders depend upon marriage as an exclusively heterosexual institution. Rather, anthropological research supports the conclusion that a vast array of family types, including families built upon same-sex partnerships, can contribute to stable and humane societies."

Kids should be taught from age 5 that homosexuality is perverted and abnormal. Or younger.

They'd be better off teaching them that "perverted" is a word with a negative connotation but no explanatory power, such that juxtaposing it next to a noun constitutes nothing more than a nondescript assertion.
I.E. "Homosexuality is perverted" is no more or less an argument against homosexuality than "Heterosexuality is perverted" is an argument against heterosexuality. It is equivalent to stating "It's bad" and those who state such things about others without offering justification indicate both stupidity and irresponsibleness.

They should also teach that abnormally kind or intelligent people are abnormal and that uses of the word employed by individuals such as yourself are broadly indistinguishable from how you used the word "perverted".

 

[Truths4yer]

How would this education happen? What class would it be included in? Is there an equivalent for heterosexuality now?

The same ones sex/relationship ed occurs in. Yes, the sex/relationship ed classes.

If this is about bullying or being made fun of then is there something about those issues in general which something about sexuality could be added to?

Apparently so (see 3m36s in to 10m15s):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUXkY5ejJg8&t=3m36s


There are a wealth of studies on the significance of the school environment:

Lampinen et al. 2008, American Journal of Public Health, 98(6), 1028-1035:
"Our study findings indicate a high risk for physical assault among adolescent and young adult MSM". "Given that we and others have observed sexual orientation–related violence to occur at very young ages, school-based programs to generate tolerance of and support for sexual minority youths are warranted."

Heck et al. 2011, School Psychology Quarterly, 26(2), 161-174:
"The results indicate that youth who attended a high school with a GSA report significantly more favorable outcomes related to school experiences, alcohol use, and psychological distress."

Poteat et al. 2007, The Journal of Early Adolescence, 27(2), 175-191:
"Homophobic victimization significantly predicted increased anxiety and depression, personal distress, and lower sense of school belonging in males and higher levels of withdrawal in females".

Van Bergen et al. 2013, American Journal of Public Health, 103(1), 70-72:
"The data showed that victimization at school was associated with suicidal ideation and actual suicide attempts. Homophobic rejection by parents was also associated with actual suicide attempts."

Schneider et al. 2012, American Journal of Public Health, 102(1), 171-177:
"Victimization was higher among nonheterosexually identified youths." "Distress was highest among victims of both cyberbullying and school bullying (adjusted odds ratios [AORs] were from 4.38 for depressive symptoms to 5.35 for suicide attempts requiring medical treatment)."

Birkett et al. 2009, Journal of Youth and Adolescence, 38(7), 989-100:
"LGB and sexually questioning youth were more likely to report high levels of bullying, homophobic victimization, and various negative outcomes than heterosexual youth. Students who were questioning their sexual orientation reported the most bullying, the most homophobic victimization, the most drug use, the most feelings of depression and suicidality, and more truancy than either heterosexual or LGB students. A positive school climate and a lack of homophobic victimization moderated the differences among sexual orientation status and outcomes."

Walls et al. 2008, Social Work, 53(1), 21-29:
"The findings suggest that risk factors related to suicidality include hopelessness, methamphetamine use, homelessness, and in-school victimization."

Goodenow et al. 2006, Psychology In The Schools, 43(5), 573-589:
"Sexual minority adolescents in schools with LGB support groups reported lower rates of victimization and suicide attempts than those in other schools. Victimization and perceived staff support predicted suicidality."

Warner et al. 2004, The British Journal of Psychiatry, 185: 479-485:
"Out of the whole sample, 361 (31%) had attempted suicide. This was associated with markers of discrimination such as recent physical attack (OR=1.7, 95% CI 1.3-2.3) and school bullying."

Bontempo et al. 2002, Journal of Adolescent Health, 30(5), 364-374:
"LGB youths reporting low levels of at-school victimization reported levels of substance use, suicidality, and sexual-risk behaviors that were similar to heterosexual peers who reported low at-school victimization."

Then why not tell parents to talk about this stuff instead of having the school system do it?

Do you make this point for every other topic covered at school? If not, why not?
Because the teachers are trained, experienced educators and the enforced silence concerning sex/sexuality engaged in by parents and wider society is exactly how taboos/stigma are formed, which is massively inhibitory to free discussion/education. The emboldened parts are the main reason why such topics should be discussed in general, rather than deliberately censored.

How does a 5 year old feel they are gay anyway?

Some actually do, at least retrospectively and certainly I've heard many parents reporting an awareness of their child's atypical sexual orientation from very young ages. This isn't the central issue however in my view. The previous, emboldened part is.

In another era there would be no need to teach against homosexuality as the majority has no inclination toward it.

Do you have any evidence of a seismic shift in prevalence? Most kids have no inclination towards any given profession, so should we not teach them about any professions? Ancient history isn't really relevant as the kids themselves haven't featured in it, so should the teaching of history be banned? Should kids simply opt themselves out of all lessons which they lack any inclination towards?

 

[Truths4yer]

as a christian we should not in anyway encourage our government to teach our own or our society that iniquity, sin, perversion of natural behaviors is normal or an acceptable alternative.

I've addressed references to "perversion" and "normal"ity in response to another poster in this thread. You engage in a perversion of nature every time you apply antiperspirant, as do medical practitioners whenever they administer medications such as anticoagulants. I doubt you condemn these unnatural behaviours.

This is a parental matter. Delving into sexual practices and activities at that age let alone any other age is NONE of the governments business.

Why is it a parental matter? The government isn't delving in so much as providing facts. That is the type of education I would support anyhow.

Big brother tinkering with indoctrination of our children.
This is government attempting to poke their nose in moral and religious doctrines. defining what sin is and taking away the RIGHTS of parents to teach religious values to their children.

So your concern is that the government may interfere with your ability to indoctrinate (brainwash) your children?

The U.S. Constitution brought the separation of church and state for this reason. to ensure Government does not impose religious ceremonies or values upon the people.

It's not related to religion. You're relating it to your religion. Religious education... which you presumably have at least some of in the U.S... would be a step closer to what you're referring to but even that would not involve the imposition of religious ceremonies or values etc.

they have a civil union option for partner recognition they don't have to change the meaning, history and definition of (marriage).

It has changed throughout time and exists in an enormous variety of definitions across the planet today... with polygamy both biblically sanctioned and legally practised in almost 50 nations today for instance.

If they want to develop their own brand of religious affiliation that accepts that fine have their own ceremony they can.

An intelligent point, well done. These already exist btw but their religious freedom is sometimes inhibited by proponents of the Abrahamic religions.

They don't have the right to demand the government to change all religious texts and beliefs to make unnatural and non life giving unions as acceptable in that church or spiritual institution.

Has this ever occurred?

 

[jgarden]

UK: Labour’s plan to introduce LGBT ed to 5 year olds is their best idea

Don't conservatives ever become weary of sensationalizing sex ed as some sort of LGBT conspiracy targeting the country's children?