Turn the Russia narrative on its head

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rexlunae

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Did you support Obama when he sent his team over to Israel in an attempt to defeat Netanyahu?
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Specifically, what did they do? There are legal ways for foreign governments to participate in an election. Committing crimes is not one of them.

Jerry Shugart said:
Of course whoever was responsible for the WikiLeaks in the Presidential elections in the USA would have been totally impotent to have any effect on that election if Hillary did not have so many shameful secrets which were exposed.
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What was the most shocking thing you learned from the wikileaks documents?
 
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rexlunae

New member
ClimateSanity said:
How do those iinterfere?
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By changing the minds of potential voters and candidates. I'm looking to Jerry to tell me what he thinks Obama did in the Israeli elections that was so wrong.

To be clear, it's not that I expect the Russians to stay out of our elections. But if they commit crimes, which the theft of emails definitely was, they can be indicted. And if Americans participated, they can and should be prosecuted.
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
rexlunae said:
By changing the minds of potential voters and candidates. I'm looking to Jerry to tell me what he thinks Obama did in the Israeli elections that was so wrong.

To be clear, it's not that I expect the Russians to stay out of our elections. But if they commit crimes, which the theft of emails definitely was, they can be indicted. And if Americans participated, they can and should be prosecuted.
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If the Russians were handed the emails by wiki leaks without asking, their subsequent distribution is ok.

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kmoney

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
DavidK said:
Where are you seeing this narrative?

All of the analysis I've read or heard in supposedly liberal bastions like the NYT or NPR is that there was definitely Russian attempts at interference but that it probably didn't significantly change the outcome of the election.

The point of finding out if the Trump campaign colluded isn't to say, "Hillary should have been elected." It's to find out whether members of the Trump campaign committed the potentially treasonous act of enlisting a foreign power to help Trump get elected. It doesn't matter a bit whether the meddling was effective or not.
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I also haven't seen anyone say that the Russian interference gave the election to Trump. If any outside influence did it was the Comey's.
 
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rexlunae

New member
kmoney said:
I also haven't seen anyone say that the Russian interference gave the election to Trump. If any outside influence did it was the Comey's.
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I say that. And the simple reason is that the margin is so small in the key states that any of several things would have done it. There's good direct evidence that Comey's letter made an impact, but Russian meddling almost certainly was also crucial.
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
rexlunae said:
I say that. And the simple reason is that the margin is so small in the key states that any of several things would have done it. There's good direct evidence that Comey's letter made an impact, but Russian meddling almost certainly was also crucial.
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You mean wikileaks made a difference. The MSM is a propaganda arm of the DNC. All of their stories are free campaign ads for the DNC and outright hit pieces on Republicans. The Republicans are at a 40 point disadvantage before they attempt to use any campaign ads themselves. How can anyone say that it was wikileaks that overcame that barrier?

There are also many factors that go into a person's vote. Even in a state like Michigan with a thin voter margin for Trump, can anyone really say wikileaks was the biggest factor?

Unless wikileaks comprised a huge percentage of the reasons voters in states like Michigan voted for Trump, it's a non issue.

Besides, people have a right to any available information regardless of the legality of its origin. I say the voters should be privy to the dirty dealings of Washington known as the swamp. Without wikileaks, Trump's pronouncements of draining the swamp would have been far less powerful and people would not be really sure what be was referring to.

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