Trolls and Attention Whores

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Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
...Critical thinking presupposes an ability for impartiality which we do not have.
No, it doesn't or all you've done is make the word impartiality meaningless and transfered the value to some other word or process. Rather, it posits that we should subject any posit to rigorous examination. Before we arrive at that examination we should have given the same consideration to our bias and expectation. It's the sort of process that can allow you to understand atheism has intellectual integrity even while you cannot see any real value as a matter of faith.

It has been lost normal for the devolution and atrophy of emotional intellegence.
That looked like English from afar. Up close it's missing something: coherency. You might consider breaking that down into parts so we can see and understand what you've left out of your....whatever that was meant to constitute.

In theory critical thinking is concerned with truth but actually being human CT becomes a tool to justify preconception.
A similar problem. Either break your thoughts with punctuation or into independent, relating sentences. As you set it out it literally reads that CT is "actually human" requiring your reader to reconfigure after the fact to glean your intended meaning. A better treatment?

In theory, critical thinking is concerned with truth; but, in actuality, critical thinking is used as a tool to justify preconceptions.

That still would have had weaknesses, but it's closer to what you appear to mean to say. Optimally, I'd have put it like this: while in theory critical thinking is meant to advance objective truth, to the degree that advancement is humanly possible, in practice its process is distorted by the very bias it attempts to eliminate. It suffers from a larger metamethodological deficiency that requires a near infinite regress of consideration to apprehend. The practical impossibility of that process leaves us with an invariably contaminated approach at best. At worst, the appearance of that process is cobbled onto a foregone conclusion to lend an authority absent in fact.

See? Part of what rigorous academic life provides is the ability to encompass and argue from another perspective. More, it requires it as part of the process. On occasion that ability will lead to a changing of the possessor's opinion if that opinion is less rooted in reason than desire. It may be far from perfect, but its the best means we have to arrive at the truth of a matter.

New Age critical thinking is the same.
Then you'd do better to distinguish any claim by saying it isn't reflective of or evidences poor critical thinking than this creation of yours...of course, the downside to doing that is that you'll then have to actually make the case and defend against a reasoned counter.

I'm betting you keep on with the incantations.

Where CT is theoretically impartial and dedicated to truth, you can see how there are so many loose ends
The great thing about an honest and finely tuned process is that it tends to expose the weakness in everything. Utilize it and you may not end up with the results you wanted, but you'll end up with as honest an understanding of why as can be had.

that it easily becomes a tool to justify opinion through elitism.
Now that sounds like your educational envy/issue rearing its unlettered head again. A waste of time.

New Age critical thinking is the ability to use logic to justify opinion.
Then it isn't critical thinking at all (supra).

As you know there is a difference between a valid argument and truth.
And you know how we know that...:plain:

For example there are two main reasons for the artificial division between religion and science.
Artificial? In the same sense that sugar and butter are artificially divided by a dictionary.

:e4e:
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
critical thinking?

you just can't put words together and expect them to make sense

why not reasonable thinking?
which
may lead us to what is critical
 

zippy2006

New member
Rainee, a bit of advice. You cannot take TH seriously. He is a victim of New Age critical thought which is a common ailment of many who believe themselves educated. This unfortunate affliction forces the victim to try to use logic to justify preconceptions rather than in support of an open mind. Any denial of this imaginary educated superiority will always be met by righteous indignation and condemnation. It is part of the condition.

Just be happy you do not suffer from this affliction.

:dizzy::shocked::confused::chuckle:
 

Nick_A

New member
critical thinking?

you just can't put words together and expect them to make sense

why not reasonable thinking?
which
may lead us to what is critical

It would require common sense; a very rare attribute so cannot be expected in this day and age.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
:dizzy::shocked::confused::chuckle:

(just fo sho)

It's a shame we don't have a militant atheist with the username De Dodah. People could have hours of fun just introducing the two of you.

:poly:

Yeah, Sunday is always slow around here. :plain: Or is it just me...(yes, yes, intended--but by all means rush to the clever retort).
 

Nick_A

New member
No, it doesn't or all you've done is make the word impartiality meaningless and transfered the value to some other word or process. Rather, it posits that we should subject any posit to rigorous examination. Before we arrive at that examination we should have given the same consideration to our bias and expectation. It's the sort of process that can allow you to understand atheism has intellectual integrity even while you cannot see any real value as a matter of faith.


Who are you trying to kid? I'm the one recognizing the value of Simone Weil. What she brings is one reason why there is no essential division between science and religion.

Religion in so far as it is a source of consolation is a hindrance to true faith; and in this sense atheism is a purification. I have to be an atheist with that part of myself which is not made for God. Among those in whom the supernatural part of themselves has not been awakened, the atheists are right and the believers wrong.
- Simone Weil, Faiths of Meditation; Contemplation of the divine
the Simone Weil Reader, edited by George A. Panichas (David McKay Co. NY 1977) p 417



Granted I was writing fast and leaving out some commas but the meaning is obvious.

Jean Shepherd once said that there were two kinds of people: "the punctuators and the rest of us." I saw at a very early age that he and I were one of the "rest of us."

This is not the place to get into an involved discussion of emotional intelligence since even the concept has been secularized into virtually meaningless subjective divisions.

That still would have had weaknesses, but it's closer to what you appear to mean to say. Optimally, I'd have put it like this: while in theory critical thinking is meant to advance objective truth, to the degree that advancement is humanly possible, in practice its process is distorted by the very bias it attempts to eliminate. It suffers from a larger metamethodological deficiency that requires a near infinite regress of consideration to apprehend. The practical impossibility of that process leaves us with an invariably contaminated approach at best. At worst, the appearance of that process is cobbled onto a foregone conclusion to lend an authority absent in fact.

See? Part of what rigorous academic life provides is the ability to encompass and argue from another perspective. More, it requires it as part of the process. On occasion that ability will lead to a changing of the possessor's opinion if that opinion is less rooted in reason than desire. It may be far from perfect, but its the best means we have to arrive at the truth of a matter.

What you have written assures that you are not in your writings. That is why you do not understand and you become oblivious of the practical realities as in the difficulties endured by Mrs. Rigo's class.

Theory is one thing. Practical reality is another. The conflict between the two is what compelled Nimzovitch, while standing on a table, to utter this immortal expression after a loss in a chess tournament:

"Why must I lose to this idiot?

Critical thinking and analysis is one thing. Practical reality through normal bias is another. It is why we don't understand in the context of the real meaning of the word.

The great thing about an honest and finely tuned process is that it tends to expose the weakness in everything. Utilize it and you may not end up with the results you wanted, but you'll end up with as honest an understanding of why as can be had.

You do not see why the process is limiting. Dr. Lasker said that in chess, the combination reveals the hypocrite. This means that slavery to a process denies additional variables necessary to reveal the position as a whole.

Now that sounds like your educational envy/issue rearing its unlettered head again. A waste of time.

It doesn't require envy to be aware of the dangers of glorified self importance
 

zippy2006

New member
It's a shame we don't have a militant atheist with the username De Dodah. People could have hours of fun just introducing the two of you.

:poly:

Maybe Knight could set up a system that, when one sets their belief to 'atheist', would automatically assign them a pre-determined name. That would at least guarantee that they bring something to the table, if unintentionally. Luckily Atheist PhD didn't even require such a system :chuckle:

Yeah, Sunday is always slow around here. :plain: Or is it just me...(yes, yes, intended--but by all means rush to the clever retort).

Oh ye Heretic :D
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Who are you trying to kid?
If by kid you mean educate...got a mirror? :think: And try attributing. It isn't a thing you've had difficulty with before and it's poor form to fail.

I'm the one recognizing the value of Simone Weil.
Rather, you have a differing appreciation both in terms of degree and scope. We've never discussed her particular philosophical worth.

What she brings is one reason why there is no essential division between science and religion.
Rubbish.

Religion in so far as it is a source of consolation is a hindrance to true faith; and in this sense atheism is a purification. I have to be an atheist with that part of myself which is not made for God. Among those in whom the supernatural part of themselves has not been awakened, the atheists are right and the believers wrong.
- Simone Weil, Faiths of Meditation; Contemplation of the divine
the Simone Weil Reader, edited by George A. Panichas (David McKay Co. NY 1977) p 417
Right. That's her opinion. And, as per usual, it's a rather self celebratory one. The mystery of your adoration grows less veiled by the minute...or post, depending.

Granted I was writing fast and leaving out some commas but the meaning is obvious.
That was only part of the problem, as I set out in the suggested alterations. You frequently overreach in an attempt to assume an academic tone that the writing doesn't actually evidence. Better to say it more simply and straight forward for both our sakes and the larger audience, assuming.

Jean Shepherd once said that there were two kinds of people: "the punctuators and the rest of us." I saw at a very early age that he and I were one of the "rest of us."
You should also lean less heavily on others. Beyond that, my point was broader than jot and tittle and went to clarity and usage, which isn't nit picking. It's a desire that you don't require your readers to rewrite your material for you before getting on with the business of appraisal. Making them do that leaves an additional chance for distortion and misunderstanding.

This is not the place to get into an involved discussion of emotional intelligence since even the concept has been secularized into virtually meaningless subjective divisions.
That's about what I thought you'd say. Try not bringing up matters you aren't prepared to defend and explain...assuming you can manage that without ending your participation altogether.

What you have written assures that you are not in your writings.
That's horrible. What on earth can you mean by it? I'm not surprised you find no real value in being as versed in opposition as you are in advancement of an idea. It shows in your errors, your ill considered opinions and your general methodology. It is a weakness that will continue to make you easy prey for those who don't share your aversion to disciplined thinking, even if by virtue of that deficiency you're among the last to see it.

You do not see why the process is limiting.
You can hardly judge a process you don't understand.
Dr. Lasker said that in chess, the combination reveals the hypocrite. This means that slavery to a process denies additional variables necessary to reveal the position as a whole.
Rather, by failing to adopt the sort of examination I gave example of you make yourself a slave to any idea that flatters you or your desire.

It doesn't require envy to be aware of the dangers of glorified self importance
No, but it evidences it in expression. I don't think I'm more important than you. I'm simply a clearer thinker than you are...not a source of particular pride, but the result of particular discipline and application. It isn't something you can't possess, but something you've rejected and I've set out my best guess as to why.

:e4e:
 

bybee

New member
Well

Well

And the person known as bybee only seeks to express wonderful thoughts while ignoring the results of those that endure racial and religious bigotry and the human condition in general. You wish to condemn those that interrupt the sleep of la la land to reveal reality.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I wouldn't know about that. I've taken another route!
bybee
 

zippy2006

New member
It would be Zippity

Zippity phonetically
You can hear it. Not Zippy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z3bJHUVP2w


Zippity

You know, she has a point...:think:

Always raineeing on our parade aren't cha!? :rain: :p

...Actually I think "zippy de doodah" is pronounced essentially the same, and TH is usually right anyway :idunno: :D

Not that I would want to come between you and your friends
communication
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7mOzWQSnaQ&feature=related

What greater love is there than this? :)
 
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