Trinity Proof Scriptures

[Dartman]

... But, you can't hide the fact that you have already stated that "The holy spirit...obviously is God." So, now, you've just got done telling us that, although "The holy spirit...obviously is God," nevertheless, the Holy Spirit cannot be the only true God, because you claim that only the Father is the true God. So, while saying that the Holy Spirit "obviously is God, you are accusing the Holy Spirit of being a FALSE God.

Nope. The holy spirit is the Father. IT is the Father's mind, identity, spirit, thinking, values, knowledge, wisdom ..... and POWER.

Who, then, would you say is the Holy Spirit's mind?

.... God's minds mind???
The holy spirit is the Father's mind. IT doesn't have it's own mind ... it IS God's mind. The Father's mind.

What do you mean when you accuse someone of "lying to [God's] face"?

I don't believe I ever have.

 

[Dartman]

What, exactly, do you mean by that?

Do you mean, "Only the Father is true God"?

Did Jesus say, to the Father, "thee the only true God", or, did Jesus say, to the Father, "thee only art the true God"?

Those phrases mean exactly the same thing.
There is no other "true God" than Christ's God ... Jehovah/YHVH God, the Father.
There is only one "Christ", our Lord.

 

[Rosenritter]

I consider myself to be an Open Theist, but do not see how Open Theism could lead to "Jesus is God".

1) Do you believe that the Messiah was prophesied before the birth of Jesus?
2) Do you understand that the Messiah also needed to fulfill the role of the Passover Lamb?
3) Could the sacrifice for the sin of mankind have sin (blemish) and still fulfill that role?

I'll continue but I'd like your answers for those first.

The most vocal Trinitarians on this forum seem to claim that they independently became Trinitarians by reading the Bible and were never taught about Trinitarianism by their church.

I wonder how many of those here actually did come up with that independently without coming from a Trinity church background.

 

[Rosenritter]

:blabla:

Get saved, then we can discuss spiritual things.

That is one of the most moronic responses you can have for someone. You should be ashamed.

 

[Rosenritter]

You say, "I do worship Jesus", and then you make the demand, "Show us the scripture that tells us to worship Jesus". Astounding!

[MENTION=15324]NWL[/MENTION] - you seem to have gotten a bit stuck. Your argument folded back on itself.

Hebrews 1:6 KJV
(6) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

If the angels of God (which are a little higher than mankind) are to worship Him, what does that imply about us?

Revelation 19:10 KJV
(10) And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

And when the angels of God which are told to worship the Son say that we are to only worship GOD, what does that tell us about the Son of God?

 

[john w]

God fully planed for His son. God saw the glory that Jesus would be. Jesus was asking God to fulfill that glory, raising Jesus back to life ... an IMMORTAL life, and then seating Jesus at the right hand of his God.
God didn't give HIS OWN glory to Jesus, any more than Jesus gave God's glory to the apostles;

John 17:21 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

=the word means what I, bible corrector, says it means.



John 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Isaiah 48 KJVa
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it:for how should my name be polluted?and I will not give my glory unto another.

1 Corinthians 2 KJV

8 which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


John 2 KJV

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Luke 9 KJV
26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

Take your seat-I only engage bible believers, not bible correctors/agnostics/mystics.

 

[Rosenritter]

Those phrases mean exactly the same thing.
There is no other "true God" than Christ's God ... Jehovah/YHVH God, the Father.
There is only one "Christ", our Lord.

And how many lords?

1 Corinthians 8:5 KJV
(5) For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

What I meant to say was how many true Lords, if we exclude the false lords?

 

[7djengo7]

The holy spirit is the Father.

And, the only true God is the Father...

Here, you've stated that the Holy Spirit is the Father. So, now, you have told us that the only true God is the Holy Spirit. Thank you.

.... God's minds mind???
The holy spirit is the Father's mind. IT doesn't have it's own mind ... it IS God's mind. The Father's mind.

You're saying that God is not, Himself, a mind, but that He HAS a mind. If God, then, did not HAVE a mind, He, presumably, could not think. In other words, one needs a mind in order to think. No? Would you say that God, Himself, thinks, or, that, on the contrary, God, Himself, does not think, but that only God's mind thinks? Which is it?

Which would you say is doing the thinking: God, Himself, or God's mind, the Holy Spirit?

Now, if one requires a mind in order to think, and (as you just got done telling us) the Holy Spirit (to Whom you refer as "IT") "doesn't have it's [sic] own mind", then, how, exactly, does the Holy Spirit think?

 

[Dartman]

John 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Isaiah 48 KJVa
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it:for how should my name be polluted?and I will not give my glory unto another.

Yep, Jesus was praying immediately before his death. He was asking for his God to glorify him. About 3 days later, his God raised him from the dead to eternal life. Every bit of this was foreknown before God created the universe, and was foretold by several prophets. All who knew about "Jesus day" saw it with glory. Jesus wasn't literally there. Jesus didn't literally exist until Bethlehem. Jehovah/YHVH God Himself stated that Christ's going forth was planned "from of old".... but that Jesus would NOT "come forth unto" Jehovah, until Bethlehem;
Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

 

[john w]

Yep, Jesus was praying immediately before his death. He was asking for his God to glorify him. About 3 days later, his God raised him from the dead to eternal life. Every bit of this was foreknown before God created the universe, and was foretold by several prophets. All who knew about "Jesus day" saw it with glory. Jesus wasn't literally there. Jesus didn't literally exist until Bethlehem. Jehovah/YHVH God Himself stated that Christ's going forth was planned "from of old".... but that Jesus would NOT "come forth unto" Jehovah, until Bethlehem;
Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

=the word means what I, bible corrector, says it means.



John 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Isaiah 48 KJVa
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it:for how should my name be polluted?and I will not give my glory unto another.

1 Corinthians 2 KJV

8 which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


John 2 KJV

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Luke 9 KJV
26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

Take your seat-I only engage bible believers, not bible correctors/agnostics/mystics.


in his own glory, and in his Father’s


Isaiah 48 KJVa
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it:for how should my name be polluted?and I will not give my glory unto another.


John 16 KJV
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Isaiah 48 KJVa
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it:for how should my name be polluted?and I will not give my glory unto another.

 

[7djengo7]

Those phrases mean exactly the same thing.

Again, I asked you a question: What, exactly, do YOU mean when you say, "And, the only true God is the Father"? So far, no answer from you.

I, for one, do not say, "And, the only true God is the Father". That is YOUR expression, not mine, and not Scripture's.

If you refuse to try to answer my question, then, perhaps you could turn it over to your mind, so that IT can take a turn at trying to answer it, eh?

 

[Dartman]

Here, you've stated that the Holy Spirit is the Father. So, now, you have told us that the only true God is the Holy Spirit. Thank you.

Not quite. The only true God is the Father, the holy spirit is His mind, and the power produced by His mind

You're saying that God is not, Himself, a mind, but that He HAS a mind.

Not quite.
God IS a mind .... He is not JUST a mind, but He is the PERFECT mind.
What we KNOW about God is almost entirely His thinking... His mind/spirit. When Jesus was explaining the coming changes to worship, Jesus first told her that he, and the other Jews KNEW their God, and Jesus and the other Jews worshiped the only true God. Jesus then explained that worshiping God was no longer going to be centered in Jerusalem, it was going to be centered in the spirits/minds of the believers, because God IS spirit/mind. So are we a mind. It contains our identity, our values, our knowledge, and wisdom. Jesus was NOT discussing God's physical nature, he was comparing methods of worship; "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

If God, then, did not HAVE a mind, He, presumably, could not think.

I have told you repeatedly, God has a mind ... it is called "the holy spirit".

Which would you say is doing the thinking: God, Himself, or God's mind, the Holy Spirit?

Which does YOUR thinking, you or your mind?

 

[Dartman]

Again, I asked you a question: What, exactly, do YOU mean when you say, "And, the only true God is the Father"? So far, no answer from you.

Exactly what Jesus said to his God; Eternal Life is knowing YOU the ONLY true God, AND (knowing) Jesus the Christ whom YOU have sent.

 

[Dartman]

,,,

John 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Isaiah 48 KJVa
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it:for how should my name be polluted?and I will not give my glory unto another.

Ive already corrected your faulty interpretation of these verses.

You didn't address John 17:21 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Please do so, and we can then discuss the next set of verses.

 

[7djengo7]

I have told you repeatedly, God has a mind ... it is called "the holy spirit".

God HAS a mind, or God IS a mind?

Which does YOUR thinking, you or your mind?

Since I am a mind, I--the mind that I am--think.

 

[7djengo7]

I have told you repeatedly, God has a mind ... it is called "the holy spirit".

Answer the question:

Is God a mind? Yes or No?

Until you say to me, "Yes, God is a mind," OR, "No, God is not a mind," you will not have answered the question I asked you.

Is God a mind? Yes or No?

 

[john w]

Ive already corrected your faulty interpretation of these verses.

You didn't address John 17:21 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Please do so, and we can then discuss the next set of verses.

Nope-you don't have that authority, per 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV. "Correction" is your ministry, Christ rejector.

=the word means what I, bible corrector, says it means.



John 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Isaiah 48 KJVa
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it:for how should my name be polluted?and I will not give my glory unto another.

1 Corinthians 2 KJV

8 which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


John 2 KJV

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Luke 9 KJV
26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

Take your seat-I only engage bible believers, not bible correctors/agnostics/mystics.


in his own glory, and in his Father’s


Isaiah 48 KJVa
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it:for how should my name be polluted?and I will not give my glory unto another.


John 16 KJV
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Isaiah 48 KJVa
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it:for how should my name be polluted?and I will not give my glory unto another.

 

[john w]

in his own glory, and in his Father’s


Isaiah 48 KJVa
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it:for how should my name be polluted?and I will not give my glory unto another.

 

[Rosenritter]

Yep, Jesus was praying immediately before his death. He was asking for his God to glorify him. About 3 days later, his God raised him from the dead to eternal life. Every bit of this was foreknown before God created the universe, and was foretold by several prophets. All who knew about "Jesus day" saw it with glory. Jesus wasn't literally there. Jesus didn't literally exist until Bethlehem. Jehovah/YHVH God Himself stated that Christ's going forth was planned "from of old".... but that Jesus would NOT "come forth unto" Jehovah, until Bethlehem;
Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Do you count human life as beginning from some other time than conception? Or do you mean that Jesus did not literally exist until Bethlehem because that is when the parents would officially apply the name?

 

[Rosenritter]

Answer the question:

Is God a mind? Yes or No?

Until you say to me, "Yes, God is a mind," OR, "No, God is not a mind," you will not have answered the question I asked you.

Is God a mind? Yes or No?

I could answer that question consistently concerning myself. No matter which I would choose I can think of a reason why that answer would be wrong. I think that is because the meaning of the word "is" is not defined (too flexible) in that question.