Transgressor from the womb

[beloved57]

Isa 48:8

Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb

Now even though this scripture may be spoken of national Israel, it's a truth regarding all men by nature. We are sinful at birth from the stomach of our mother. We were as David cried PS 51:5

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Ps 58:3

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

So babies are born as unclean sinners deserving of death even though it is not manifested until they are more fully developed. However all the seeds of wickedness are there in the flesh in innocent latent form! Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh and Paul said Rom 7:18

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

A newborn baby needs to be born again for heaven no less than a adult because Paul wrote 1 Cor 15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Newborns are no more than flesh and blood.

 

[beloved57]

Even the elect by nature, by physical birth, are children of wrath, worthy of wrath Eph 2:3

³ Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Our nature is with us from birth!

 

[Bradley D]

There is an age of innocence. After that comes evil imagination of the heart.

"And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad--they will enter the land..." (Deut. 1:39).

 

[beloved57]

There is an age of innocence. After that comes evil imagination of the heart.

"And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad--they will enter the land..." (Deut. 1:39).

A person can be innocent of committing a crime and still be evil. And to say that there's a age of innocence is not in the scripture, you just made that up! It's a figment of your imagination!

 

[Bradley D]

A person can be innocent of committing a crime and still be evil. And to say that there's a age of innocence is not in the scripture, you just made that up! It's a figment of your imagination!

I just gave you the scripture!

 

[beloved57]

I just gave you the scripture!

That scripture said nothing about what you said. I gave you scriptures and you have ignored them.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Our nature is with us from birth!

The following words of the Lord Jesus about "little children" prove that He did not believe that little children enter the world with a fallen nature:

"Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. Jesus said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these'" (Mt.19:13-14).​

According to the your mistaken ideas infants and little children emerged from the womb totally depraved and therefore cannot enter the kingdom of God in their fallen state but the Lord says that the kingdom belongs to them. At another place we see the Lord Jesus speaking about children and here the same truth can be seen:

"At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven" (Mt.18:1-4).​

If the your ideas are correct then we must stand reason on its head and imagine that the Lord Jesus was teaching that unless we become deprived of holiness we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven! That is patently ridiculous and common sense dictates that the Lord Jesus did not believe that infants come into the world as children of wrath .
We can also see that children are also described as being "an heritage of the Lord":

"Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward" (Ps.127:3).​

You have proven over and over that the Lord Jesus' words have no place in your heart so I will waste no more time with you on this subject!

 

[beloved57]

The following words of the Lord Jesus about "little children" prove that He did not believe that little children enter the world with a fallen nature:

"Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. Jesus said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these'" (Mt.19:13-14).​

According to the your mistaken ideas infants and little children emerged from the womb totally depraved and therefore cannot enter the kingdom of God in their fallen state but the Lord says that the kingdom belongs to them. At another place we see the Lord Jesus speaking about children and here the same truth can be seen:

"At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven" (Mt.18:1-4).​

If the your ideas are correct then we must stand reason on its head and imagine that the Lord Jesus was teaching that unless we become deprived of holiness we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven! That is patently ridiculous and common sense dictates that the Lord Jesus did not believe that infants come into the world as children of wrath .
We can also see that children are also described as being "an heritage of the Lord":

"Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward" (Ps.127:3).​

You have proven over and over that the Lord Jesus' words have no place in your heart so I will waste no more time with you on this subject!

Yes babies from the womb are transgressors Ps 58:3

³ The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.


Nothing you have quoted contradicts that!

From the womb men are unclean and alienated from the life of God.

Job 14:4

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Babies are little baby sinners deserving of death!

 

[Nanja]

Isa 48:8

Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb

Now even though this scripture may be spoken of national Israel, it's a truth regarding all men by nature. We are sinful at birth from the stomach of our mother. We were as David cried PS 51:5

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Ps 58:3

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

So babies are born as unclean sinners deserving of death even though it is not manifested until they are more fully developed. However all the seeds of wickedness are there in the flesh in innocent latent form! Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh and Paul said Rom 7:18

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

A newborn baby needs to be born again for heaven no less than a adult because Paul wrote 1 Cor 15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Newborns are no more than flesh and blood.

Exactly Brother ! Even God's Elect, though not the children of the devil, they do partake of the same wicked nature as the children of the devil partake of;

for natural birth gives all / everyone that nature, after the image and likeness of satan or the devil Eph. 2:2-3.

So yes, even though God's Elect Children were shapen in iniquity Ps. 51:5 as the devils children are, God never considered a Lost Son of His as a child of the devil !

Luke 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

 

[beloved57]

Nanja

Exactly Brother ! Even God's Elect, though not the children of the devil, they do partake of the same wicked nature as the children of the devil partake of;

for natural birth gives all / everyone that nature, after the image and likeness of satan or the devil Eph. 2:2-3.

Exactly

So yes, even though God's Elect Children were shapen in iniquity Ps. 51:5 as the devils children are, God never considered a Lost Son of His as a child of the devil !

Luke 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Amen!

 

[marke]

Yes babies from the womb are transgressors Ps 58:3

³ The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.


Nothing you have quoted contradicts that!

From the womb men are unclean and alienated from the life of God.

Job 14:4

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Babies are little baby sinners deserving of death!

So when do Calvinists think God saves sinners and makes them new creatures? When they graduate from high school?

Why does God save high school graduates, for a good reason, for a secret reason, or for no reason at all?

 

[beloved57]

So when do Calvinists think God saves sinners and makes them new creatures? When they graduate from high school?

Why does God save high school graduates, for a good reason, for a secret reason, or for no reason at all?

Thats up to God when He quickens a elect sinner.

 

[marke]

Isa 48:8

Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb

Now even though this scripture may be spoken of national Israel, it's a truth regarding all men by nature. We are sinful at birth from the stomach of our mother. We were as David cried PS 51:5

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Ps 58:3

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

So babies are born as unclean sinners deserving of death even though it is not manifested until they are more fully developed. However all the seeds of wickedness are there in the flesh in innocent latent form! Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh and Paul said Rom 7:18

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

A newborn baby needs to be born again for heaven no less than a adult because Paul wrote 1 Cor 15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Newborns are no more than flesh and blood.

It is true all humans are born sinners at birth, but it is not true that pooping in diapers is worthy of eternal punishment in hell. There is only one sin that will send sinners to hell without excuse and that is to reject the clear knowledge of the light revealed to their heart by the Holy Spirit.

Mark 3:28
Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[beloved57]

It is true all humans are born sinners at birth, but it is not true that pooping in diapers is worthy of eternal punishment in hell. There is only one sin that will send sinners to hell without excuse and that is to reject the clear knowledge of the light revealed to their heart by the Holy Spirit.

Mark 3:28
Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

This is confusing ! God has made some people for hell and destruction and some for mercy and glory, and their age and or race, nor status has nothing to do with it ! All is governed by Gods Sovereign Good Pleasure.

 

[Nanja]

This is confusing ! God has made some people for hell and destruction and some for mercy and glory, and their age and or race, nor status has nothing to do with it ! All is governed by Gods Sovereign Good Pleasure.

Exactly Brother ! Rom. 9:22-23

 

[marke]

Exactly Brother ! Rom. 9:22-23

Do you believe God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked?

Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

 

[Nanja]

Do you believe God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked?

Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

I believe the scriptures.

 

[marke]

I believe the scriptures.

Good.

 

[beloved57]

Do you believe God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked?

Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Yeah, as that scripture applied to National Israel at that time

 

[beloved57]

Good.

So why dont you believe the scripture ? Men are transgressors from the womb scripture says Isa 48:8

Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.