Don't forget that He showed us our need to repent, also. If He had not, we wouldn't have. And He did the same with the sinners He ate with.
Tolerance vs Godliness
- Thread starter Nineveh
- Start date
Ecumenicist
New member
Originally posted by lighthouse
Idiot.
How's that for ad hominem?
Anyway...seriously, what makes you think I'm this way? Do you not realize that less than a year ago I was just like you? My beliefs have changed, Chileice. Because of scripture. Tolerance is not Christ-like. And it never was.
If Christ were intolerant, you would have had no hope. No
one would.
:darwinsm:
Are you serious, Dave?
:darwinsm:
Are you serious, Dave?
:darwinsm:
Ecumenicist
New member
yes
Chileice
New member
Kind of interesting, isn't it, that Jesus' own brothers didn't believe him at first. But Jesus didn't toast them. He had patience and they later became James, the early head of the church and Jude. Hmmm, maybe the patience method has some merits.
Now isn't this intersting in the very next chapter:
I can just hear some TOLers yelling: chop her head off!! Nuke her, Jesus! You have to follow the OT law if you are God, let's get a pile of rocks! But you know, Jesus didn't lop her head off or stone her or anything else. He gave her a chance to change. He didn't even lop off the head of the disgraceful pighead that was having an affair with her... probably he seduced her to set up a trap for Jesus... what a disgraceful twit. But Jesus didn't go after him. Yes, he was tough on sin, but he was gentle with the sinners.
He was even gentle with the Pharisees becaus ehe had the power to destroy them. They were trying to kill him. He could have acted in legitimate self-defence. Still, he was patient with them, hoping that some would come to faith. And you know what? Many did. Look at these verses:
All through John we see an increasing number of Jews coming to him, even members of the Pharisees like Nicodemus. Then after his death we see this:
Now what if Jesus had just nuked all those no good rotten priests who led him to the cross? What about Saul? That scum-sucking Christian hater. He should have been eliminated for he was far more than a first-time offender. But God was patient and allowed him the time to repent. Will all repent? Heavens no! But do you and I know who will and who won't? We don't have a clue. So Dave is right on. And Dave is serious, Lighthouse. I'm sorry you don't take the scripture as seriously as he appears to. I'm sorry you let yourself get on board the satanic train of vengeance and hate. You were better off a year ago. How can so many be led astray by such an evil plot?
Yes, love is greater than tolerance. But tolerance is a Christian virtue... a Christ-like virtue. Jesus was the most tolerant man who walked the earth. He was perfection surrounded by a sea of imperfection and yet he tolerated it and loved us. He was power personified and yet he did not use it to beat anyone into submission. If Christ were intolerant... you would have no hope. I would have no hope. Hopelessness would reign supreme.
:help:
Ecumenicist
New member
Which witch? Which witch is whitch?
firechyld
New member
lighthouse....
You're a bright kid. But you act dim sometimes. That's why it's so frustrating when you do your "dense" routine... you're not actually stupid.
Chileice ...
lighthouse....
This is exactly the kind of thing that irks me. Chileice had some good advice for you there. Improving your communication skills hardly makes you change your beliefs... but it does stop you coming across as a jerk.
You're a bright kid. But you act dim sometimes. That's why it's so frustrating when you do your "dense" routine... you're not actually stupid.
Chileice ...
lighthouse....
This is exactly the kind of thing that irks me. Chileice had some good advice for you there. Improving your communication skills hardly makes you change your beliefs... but it does stop you coming across as a jerk.
One Eyed Jack
New member
Aikido, if you're going to post nonsense, do it in one of the spam threads.
Christ did not tolerate sin. And He called sinners out. Are you all blind to this fact?!
Free-Agent Smith
New member
He was joking?
Free-Agent Smith
New member
I have never claimed to be innocent. I have been punished for my crimes. What makes you think that vengence and justice are the same thing?
Yes, a few have died for their first offence and I am sorry they couldn't control themselves enough before they commited the crime. I stood shoulder to shoulder with one guy, who happened to be white, that murdered another guy for being hispanic. He is now serving a 30 year sentence. Should he have been put to death? Yes. Why? Because he shot the man in the back of the head with a shotgun in a cornfield in the middle of the night without any provocation. My opinion isn't based on vengence. It's justice for the young man who died that night. Why should we keep the murderer alive? Why should citizens like me be forced to pay for the comforts of a prison cell for this man to live in for 30 years?
And just where do you think they should be?
Why should we keep murderers alive or on death row for more than a day? I ask these questions because to me, your point makes no sense.
Yes, a few have died for their first offence and I am sorry they couldn't control themselves enough before they commited the crime. I stood shoulder to shoulder with one guy, who happened to be white, that murdered another guy for being hispanic. He is now serving a 30 year sentence. Should he have been put to death? Yes. Why? Because he shot the man in the back of the head with a shotgun in a cornfield in the middle of the night without any provocation. My opinion isn't based on vengence. It's justice for the young man who died that night. Why should we keep the murderer alive? Why should citizens like me be forced to pay for the comforts of a prison cell for this man to live in for 30 years?
And just where do you think they should be?
Why should we keep murderers alive or on death row for more than a day? I ask these questions because to me, your point makes no sense.
Free-Agent Smith
New member
I thought maybe you missed my posts to you.
logos_x
New member
Brandon
What has gotten into you? You won't even hear what Cheleice has to say?
It has nothing to do with being right, or being wrong. It has to do with being who you are, in Him. And you aren't acting like yourself.
It doesn't ring true, and you come across as one of the hypocrites you are so fond of rebuking.
You become what you focus on.
If you can communicate without being an inconsiderate boob, then why act like one?
And don't try the "Jesus did it" bit....that dog won't hunt.
What has gotten into you? You won't even hear what Cheleice has to say?
It has nothing to do with being right, or being wrong. It has to do with being who you are, in Him. And you aren't acting like yourself.
It doesn't ring true, and you come across as one of the hypocrites you are so fond of rebuking.
You become what you focus on.
If you can communicate without being an inconsiderate boob, then why act like one?
And don't try the "Jesus did it" bit....that dog won't hunt.
I have heard so much of what Chileice has said. I agree with him at times, but he's ignoring the truth, here. I used to believe exactly what he does. I now know I was wrong. I will not run form sinners, but I won't tolerate sin, either. And if they don't care about the truth, I'll shake the dust from my feet. I thought I knew who I was in Christ, but I was so farr off. Then I saw the scriptures that contradicted me. And I felt so free. I am dead to sin. The plank has been removed from my eye. And I can now see clearly to remove the speck from my brother's eye.
Chileice
New member
Sorry for the delay but I have been quite busy. TOL is a fill in when I can thing. I don't think we are too far apart except on the death penalty. I don't think punishment is vengeance necessarily. But it can be. I think lots of times the death penalty is applied in cases in response to an overwhelming cry for vengeance. And I think it can be applied capriciously. And the worst part... if you are wrong, there is no recourse.
I don't think my tax dollars should be the driving force behind keeping a person alive. If that is the case, then abortion makes sense and so does euthanasia. It is certainly cheaper to abort than to support a welfare baby. And WAY cheaper to knock off some old grandpa before he sucks up my tax dollars on his long-term illness. The amount spent on keeping a few people in prison for the lon-term is nothing compared to what is spent on welfare and SS. But that is NOT a reason to allow abortion or euthanasia. At least it isn't for a pro-life person like myself.
God has saved many people in prison. Sometimes a man or woman has to come to the end of the rope before they allow God any room in their lives. There will be judgement for those who take the lives of another... even the life of a criminal. Life is sacred and I am not God. I will leave the determination of life and death to Him.
Chileice
New member
As far as all those mass-murderers go... I certainly have a hard time letting them live. I am for them living based on principle.... not on any warm feeling I have toward them. I too am tempted to let my desire for vengeance get the best of me. But I still think letting them live is the God-honoring thing to do.
Chileice
New member
When I was young, I let my zealouness ruin my relationship with my brother. He got into a cult group and I got into a very strict discipleship fellowship. We couldn't get together without argueing. So I just didn't get together with him. Later after I got out of college, got done criticizing all the luke-warm churches, got done trying to correct the whole world for how they could not be discipling everyone exactly how I was taught, I began to get in touch with my brother again. We had set up a time to get together for Christmas at my uncle's home and to spend a couple of weeks together and rebuild the relationship and actually enjoy one another again.
Well, it never happened. He was killed before it happened. The nice long letter I had written him was sitting by the door stamped and ready to go to the post office when my wife and I got the call. You see, lighthouse, you can love people even if you don't agree. And you had better well come to understand that before you have to live with the regret of being a hard-nose jerk in the name of God. The weird thing is, he had gotten out of the cult.... without my help. All my hardness did was ruin a relationship with someone I loved, and nothing can bring that back, not even all the "right doctrine" in the world. That's why I even bother with you, lighthouse. Because I see a lot of me in you. And I would love to help you avoid the amazing heartache of being right and killing love.
Maybe in this context, these verses will make sense to you. The letter can kill. In many things I was right, even back in college. But my spirit was hard-edged and cold and looking for a fight. That made the letter kill. When my spirit changed the same letter can now be shared in a life-giving way. Something to consider, my friend.
Aimiel
Well-known member
How is it 'God-honoring' to ignore His Word: "He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death." We have glorified murder to the point that children are committing murder, and people are getting away with murder. OJ Simpson and Bill Clinton are two of the most glaring examples. Letting people walk, who we know are guilty of murder is our fault, for not prosecuting them with everything possible to get them to justice.