toldailytopic: Women Pastors. Good idea, bad idea?

[Samstarrett]

I think the ministry is a little different. It's our souls and hearts that are called to it. Why should people tell me that my soul and heart's calling is less legitimate for this profession because it happens to reside in a female body?

I believe there's a great deal more to an individual's sex than you're making out. You make it sound as though souls are sexless and use terminology such as 'my soul...happens to reside in a female body'(emphasis mine), but I believe an individual's sex is a far more fundamental characteristic than this. It informs your patterns of thought and your view of the world and is, at least for most people, an essential part of one's identity.

I believe God made men and women different, and not just physically. I also believe these differences should be respected and celebrated to the elevation of both sexes. I am reminded of a poem that I once saw and now cannot find anywhere on the Web to save my life, but it went something like this:

If someone set the land next to the sea,
and the city next to the town,
and the mountain next to the valley,
and the moon next to the sun,
and the man next to the woman,
I suppose some fool would talk about one being better.

 

[Ktoyou]

I believe there's a great deal more to an individual's sex than you're making out. You make it sound as though souls are sexless and use terminology such as 'my soul...happens to reside in a female body'(emphasis mine), but I believe an individual's sex is a far more fundamental characteristic than this. It informs your patterns of thought and your view of the world and is, at least for most people, an essential part of one's identity.

I believe God made men and women different, and not just physically. I also believe these differences should be respected and celebrated to the elevation of both sexes. I am reminded of a poem that I once saw and now cannot find anywhere on the Web to save my life, but it went something like this:

If someone set the land next to the sea,
and the city next to the town,
and the mountain next to the valley,
and the moon next to the sun,
and the man next to the woman,
I suppose some fool would talk about one being better.

You believe in carnality. God is undivided, Jesus was divided to be fully man and fully God, the Holy Spirit is without division and we sall be made whole in heaven.

You disagree because you hold on to simplistic anthropomorphic ideas about body limitations.

 

[Krsto]

. . . they certainly had a lot of influence on what was promoted as "orthodox" in the past . . . and what many Christians accept as doctrine today . . . that's for sure . . . "political" power isn't limited to "govenment."

. . . it's funny how you can make such an excellent observation in one blurb and totally contradict it in the next.

"Truth" (whatever that really means in relation to religion) is in the eye of who has the most influence and has the ability to "convince" (I prefer "con") the most people.

That's about the dumbest thing I've heard all month. Truth typically resides with the minority, and quite often the persecuted minority - persecuted by the "powers that be." Of course I assume there is such a thing as objective truth that finds its way to subjective human beings. I know truth as we see it is just that, as we see it, but that doesn't preclude that a human can't "get it right" if he happens to accept what is indeed truth as defined by someone who has the right to do so, like God. In other words, it's quite possible for God (I know, you're an atheist, so from your perspective I'm just dealing in possibilities) to declare a thing to be true, pass that truth on to humans, allow for humans to do what humans do, and that truth not be entirely lost. In other words, it's quite possible it exists and some mortal human being or group has it - though I would agree that just because someone or an institution claims they have it doesn't mena they actually do.

 

[Samstarrett]

Dear Ktoyou,

You believe in carnality.

I suppose so, though that term is rather ambiguous and in at least one sense has a negative connotation, Biblically. I prefer to think of myself as affirming the physical creation as an expression of God's glory.

God is undivided, Jesus was divided to be fully man and fully God,

Can you explain what you mean by 'Jesus was divided'?

the Holy Spirit is without division and we sall be made whole in heaven.

OK...

You disagree because you hold on to simplistic anthropomorphic ideas about body limitations.

I'm not sure I understand. We're talking about humans, right? Humans are pretty anthropomorphic.

Peace,
Sam

 

[Ktoyou]

Dear Ktoyou,



I suppose so, though that term is rather ambiguous and in at least one sense has a negative connotation, Biblically. I prefer to think of myself as affirming the physical creation as an expression of God's glory.



Can you explain what you mean by 'Jesus was divided'?



OK...



I'm not sure I understand. We're talking about humans, right? Humans are pretty anthropomorphic.

Peace,
Sam

The hypostatic union is the Christian doctrine derived out of the Bible concerning the person of Jesus. It is the teaching that in the one person of Christ there are two distinct natures: the divine and the human. The hypostatic union was canonized at the Council of → Chalcedon in 4511 Hypostatic is derived from the Greek hypostasis and is tranlsated as "nature" in the NASB in Heb. 1:3, "And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power." It is translated as "image" in the ASV, KJV and NKJV, "imprint" in the ESV and NRSV.
http://carm.org/hypostatic-union

It does not apply to God as Father, or Holy Spirit.

Our humanity is a lesser state, further from God, but we are created in is image, meaning Imago, being able to know God, as well, good and evil. Our humanity is a condition, one where we see commonalities between us and animals, as is the case; however, we have a soul and that is our link with God.

All the faulty thinking we find her on TOL comes from being carnal, meaning in a body; the denial of Christ, atheism, evolution applied to humans. Dust you were and dust your body will again be, it is the soul that makes us able to apprehend God.

 

[Samstarrett]

The hypostatic union is the Christian doctrine derived out of the Bible concerning the person of Jesus. It is the teaching that in the one person of Christ there are two distinct natures: the divine and the human. The hypostatic union was canonized at the Council of → Chalcedon in 4511 Hypostatic is derived from the Greek hypostasis and is tranlsated as "nature" in the NASB in Heb. 1:3, "And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power." It is translated as "image" in the ASV, KJV and NKJV, "imprint" in the ESV and NRSV.
http://carm.org/hypostatic-union

It does not apply to God as Father, or Holy Spirit.

Fair enough. I assume this is what you mean by 'divided'?

Our humanity is a lesser state, further from God, but we are created in is image, meaning Imago, being able to know God, as well, good and evil. Our humanity is a condition, one where we see commonalities between us and animals, as is the case; however, we have a soul and that is our link with God.

Why do you believe this? You make it sound like being human is some kind of curse to be escaped, like we should desire the condition of a disembodied soul.

All the faulty thinking we find her on TOL comes from being carnal, meaning in a body; the denial of Christ, atheism, evolution applied to humans. Dust you were and dust your body will again be, it is the soul that makes us able to apprehend God.

I still am not convinced there is a soul. We certainly have a mind and a will and a spirit. I'm also not convinced it's bodies as such that lead to error; I believe it's man's fallen nature and the world's.

 

[Ktoyou]

Fair enough. I assume this is what you mean by 'divided'?



Why do you believe this? You make it sound like being human is some kind of curse to be escaped, like we should desire the condition of a disembodied soul.



I still am not convinced there is a soul. We certainly have a mind and a will and a spirit. I'm also not convinced it's bodies as such that lead to error; I believe it's man's fallen nature and the world's.

The first was just a simple introductory to the nature of Jesus; you might want to ask AMR about the full understanding, if you are able to comprehend it?

Being human is a lower state than being angelic and it is all within God's plan, that the low shall be brought most high, above the angels.

If you do not believe in the soul, you cannot be saved; you are rejecting what God has given us, which makes it impossible to be an 'evolved' ape.

 

[Silent Hunter]

That's about the dumbest thing I've heard all month. Truth typically resides with the minority, and quite often the persecuted minority - persecuted by the "powers that be."

. . . LOL . . . by this :kookoo: logic we should be following the persecuted minority that says 2 + 2 = 5 . . . oh, wait . . . I didn't ask you to define religious truth and how you would know if it were . . . did I?

Of course I assume there is such a thing as objective truth that finds its way to subjective human beings. I know truth as we see it is just that, as we see it, but that doesn't preclude that a human can't "get it right" if he happens to accept what is indeed truth as defined by someone who has the right to do so, like God. In other words, it's quite possible for God (I know, you're an atheist, so from your perspective I'm just dealing in possibilities) to declare a thing to be true, pass that truth on to humans, allow for humans to do what humans do, and that truth not be entirely lost. In other words, it's quite possible it exists and some mortal human being or group has it - though I would agree that just because someone or an institution claims they have it doesn't mena they actually do.

. . . white noise . . . until you can define terms.

 

[Psalmist]

...The pastor's wife (widowed) holds the pastorate for the following year from the date of her husband's death...
​

...Clarification - Providing the pastor's wife has a license or ordination.​

 

[SovereigntyIsGods]

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Krsto]

. . . LOL . . . by this :kookoo: logic we should be following the persecuted minority that says 2 + 2 = 5 . . . oh, wait . . . I didn't ask you to define religious truth and how you would know if it were . . . did I?

That would be your :kookoo: logic - I would never make such a silly assertion, especially based on what I said in the previous post.

 

[Silent Hunter]

That would be your :kookoo: logic - I would never make such a silly assertion, especially based on what I said in the previous post.

. . . white noise . . . until you can define terms.

 

[serpentdove]

Well, I reckon we can all agree that SD certainly shouldn't become a pastor...

Me? No, I work in the nursery (Jn 9:22, 11: 43-44, 12:42, 16:2, Eph 4:22, 5:11, Col 3:8-9, 2 Chr. 6:41; Isa. 61:10; Rev. 6:11; 7:9, 13, Mt 22:11). :baby:

Dirty Jobs - Diaper Cleaner

 

[Samstarrett]

Me? No, I work in the nursery (2 Chr. 6:41; Isa. 61:10; Rev. 6:11; 7:9, 13, Mt 22:11). :baby:

Dirty Jobs - Diaper Cleaner

Keep talking, you're the best argument my side has in this debate.

 

[coulter4president]

. . . . . does it involve genuflecting? . . . I just love lots of genuflecting.

i dont care if you kneel on the floor the whole time the group is discussing theology.. and sing Gregorian chants...

i just wish you would GO to RCIA

i would like to hear what nonCatholics have to say about THE REAL TEACHINGS of the Church, not the mytholigical teachings they have heard about from... antiCatholics who usually have something to gain from people not being Catholic, namely they want them to go to THEIR church, etc...

 

[coulter4president]

If you found that to be presumptuous, I apologize. That was not my intent. I was simply trying to point out that you cannot put everyone into broad categories like that.

well, i base my POV on experience... I know what its like to be a woman, for one.. I know what its like to have lived around females all my life... plenty of them.. i know what its like to have been friends w/ same.. and/or attmepting to be friends ... gave up bothering on that one...

anyway... as objectively as i myself am in my thinking, i can still see that sometimes i think subjectively.. and YES, i realize that men do this also.. ALL humans have a tendency to believe that their perceptions of reality are real and true... even when they are far from it... Again, i was speaking generally

 

[Silent Hunter]

i dont care if you kneel on the floor the whole time the group is discussing theology.. and sing Gregorian chants...

. . . :chuckle:

i just wish you would GO to RCIA

. . . been there . . . done that . . . yes . . . really.

i would like to hear what nonCatholics have to say about THE REAL TEACHINGS of the Church, not the mytholigical teachings they have heard about from... antiCatholics who usually have something to gain from people not being Catholic, namely they want them to go to THEIR church, etc...

. . . ah, ok . . . Cruciform . . . (I thought you left).

 

[Samstarrett]

. . . ah, ok . . . Cruciform . . . (I thought you left).

Cruciform could spell.

 

[serpentdove]

Keep talking, you're the best argument my side has in this debate.

Huh? What? :idunno:

:shadowmd: But yesterday was Thursday, Thursday.
Today ih...is Friday, Friday? :Whipsnap:
:freak: We, we, we, so excited.
Party-in, Party-in... :shocked:

Rebecca Black - Friday (OFFICIAL VIDEO)

 

[Samstarrett]

Huh? What? :idunno:

You are a woman, and I could scarcely imagine a worse pastor than you. Of course, I should retract what I said. You're not our best argument; that comes from Scripture. But you're not hurting us.

:shadowmd: But yesterday was Thursday, Thursday.
Today ih...is Friday, Friday? :Whipsnap:
:freak: We, we, we, so excited.
Party-in, Party-in... :shocked:

Rebecca Black - Friday (OFFICIAL VIDEO)

Irrelevant.