toldailytopic: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker: Hero or zero?

[Alate_One]

I occasionally listen to msnbc just to be amused
and
to see what your kind is listening to
but
I leave fox on all the time

So it's Fox or nothing then? You don't believe anyone else? You let yourself get brainwashed by whatever they say?

I more regularly watch/listen/read MSNBC, NPR (I especially like the weekly news roundup which has news people from almost every perspective), PBS newshour, BBC news, Truthout, Democracy NOW, Yahoo news and on occasion Fox and CNN.

I take each source with a grain of salt. Some with a larger grain than others. Shutting off your brain and believing what ANYONE tells you without questioning where it comes from isn't an option.

 

[chrysostom]

So it's Fox or nothing then? You don't believe anyone else? You let yourself get brainwashed by whatever they say?

I more regularly watch/listen/read MSNBC, NPR, PBS newshour, BBC news, Truthout, Democracy NOW, Yahoo news and on occasion Fox and CNN.

I take each source with a grain of salt. Some with a larger grain than others. Shutting off your brain and believing what ANYONE tells you without questioning where it comes from isn't an option.

you are a liberal
and
have to listen to those mentioned
but
fox will just make you madder than you already are

 

[Ktoyou]

You can't hunt with a rifle in the more heavily populated parts of the state. Further North where the homes are much further apart you can.

Oh, sorry, my mistake taken from one personal source. There is still something fishy about that state.

 

[Ktoyou]

Zero.

I don't understand how American Christians are mostly right wing. If the Gospels taught us anything it was to look after the poor, weak and the sick. Jesus seem to do that a lot and was almost socialist in his views and behaviour, Yet most American Christians are against welfare and free medicine and pro big business. If Jesus came back tomorrow he wouldn't recognize most of you as his followers, as you seem to worship mammon.

So says the atheist, teaching Christians about Christianity. :sigh:

 

[Alate_One]

you are a liberal
and
have to listen to those mentioned
but
fox will just make you madder than you already are

And you are a Right wing nutjob who blindly votes for anyone with an R after their name. Liberal isn't a dirty word. You listen to one news organization and hang on their every word. You've said it over and over again here. "Tell me what Fox news said about it".

You're a tool of the Corporatist Republican party. I hope you like being used to work against your own interests. I got tired of it. That's why I am not a Republican anymore.

I have occasionally seen glimmers of hope on Fox, sometimes they were get old school Republicans that will tell the facts to the new school ones. I wonder how many of them get invited back. :chuckle:

 

[Alate_One]

So says the atheist, teaching Christians about Christianity. :sigh:

But he's right . . .

 

[tetelestai]

Were you going to explain the significance of this difference to you?

My tax dollars pay PUBLIC union workers.

I don't want my taxes to keep going up so 45 year olds can retire and make six figure pensions with free health care.

Nor do I want guys with just a high school education making $75,000.00 a year for patching pot holes because the city's Public Works union demanded it in their collective bargaining argreement.

Have you ever been to Detroit?

Public sector unions + Private sector unions + Democrats = Detroit.

 

[The Barbarian]

I don't want my taxes to keep going up so 45 year olds can retire and make six figure pensions with free health care.

Where do teachers make that kind of money? Do you have some statistics on the retirement benefits of public workers? Show me.

Nor do I want guys with just a high school education making $75,000.00 a year for patching pot holes because the city's Public Works union demanded it in their collective bargaining argreement.

Hmm... show me a street repair laborer who makes $37.50 an hour. Then show me that he's even close to the average.

Then we'll take your examples for real.

 

[Pragmatic_Liberal]

Zero.

I don't understand how American Christians are mostly right wing. If the Gospels taught us anything it was to look after the poor, weak and the sick. Jesus seem to do that a lot and was almost socialist in his views and behaviour, Yet most American Christians are against welfare and free medicine and pro big business. If Jesus came back tomorrow he wouldn't recognize most of you as his followers, as you seem to worship mammon.

Totally agree. I'm reminded of Supply Side Jesus.

So says the atheist, teaching Christians about Christianity. :sigh:

Oh, so it's ok for you to tell us we're going to burn in hell, but not for us to point our your obvious hypocrisies? I didn't realize I had to be a member of a religion to know about it or to have an opinion on it. Perhaps you'd better let Peter King and his Muslim-hating buddies in on this.

And then, of course, there's the Pew research poll done recently showing that us crazy agnostics know more about religion than you do (though yes, white evangelicals and mormons do beat us on knowledge of christianity, if just - though we beat every other group, including the average protestant and average catholic):

http://pewforum.org/other-beliefs-and-practices/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey.aspx

So perhaps you SHOULD perk up your ears when he chooses to talk about your religion. :noway:

PL

 

[Pragmatic_Liberal]

My tax dollars pay PUBLIC union workers.

I don't want my taxes to keep going up so 45 year olds can retire and make six figure pensions with free health care.

Nor do I want guys with just a high school education making $75,000.00 a year for patching pot holes because the city's Public Works union demanded it in their collective bargaining argreement.

Have you ever been to Detroit?

Public sector unions + Private sector unions + Democrats = Detroit.

You were arguing that there was a difference between public and private that justifies treating public unions differently, denying public unions collective bargaining rights. I don't see anything in the above that touches on that, or even an attempt to address the rest of my rebuttal to you. All I see is more disjointed right-wing talking points being hurled in an effort to cover your inability to respond. At least you dropped the smug insinuations that I didn't understand the issue - props for that.

Oh, and yes, I've been to Detroit. I went to law school in Ann Arbor, only 45 minutes away on the freeway. Not that that has the slightest relevance to the topic. I suggest you go back and reread my last post, and actually THINK about it. Worry less about winning an argument, and more about trying to learn something. I would dearly love to learn something of your views, but I've yet to see you express them. You seem to favor regurgitated talking points instead.

PL

 

[tetelestai]

I don't understand how American Christians are mostly right wing. If the Gospels taught us anything it was to look after the poor, weak and the sick. Jesus seem to do that a lot and was almost socialist in his views and behaviour, Yet most American Christians are against welfare and free medicine and pro big business. If Jesus came back tomorrow he wouldn't recognize most of you as his followers, as you seem to worship mammon.

Handing people welfare checks, food stamps, and Medicaid each month along with government housing doesn't work in the long run.

The only hope is jobs, and the only way jobs are going to be created is if the government gets out of the way and lets people start companies that create jobs.

However, if the government keeps taxing the people who want to create jobs because they need the money for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and housing, then at some point the majority of the population will live in government housing.

 

[tetelestai]

You were arguing that there was a difference between public and private that justifies treating public unions differently, denying public unions collective bargaining rights. I don't see anything in the above that touches on that, or even an attempt to address the rest of my rebuttal to you.

TAXES

Where do you think the money comes from that pays PUBLIC sector employees?

 

[tetelestai]

Then we'll take your examples for real.

"A Yonkers police officer, retiring at the age of 44, boosted his pension to $127,277, exceeding his base salary of $74,000 by $53,000 a year"

This is an example of what public sector union employees do, and how the taxpayers get screwed.

Source

 

[tetelestai]

I went to law school in Ann Arbor, only 45 minutes away on the freeway. Not that that has the slightest relevance to the topic.

It doesn't, but that's what lawyers like to do.

My wife went to law school in Boston; If I had a nickle for everytime she has said "When I went to law school in Boston..." I could have retired many years ago.

 

[Town Heretic]

It doesn't, but that's what lawyers like to do.

It gets worse depending on the proximity to ivy. :think:

My wife went to law school in Boston; If I had a nickle for everytime she has said "When I went to law school in Boston..." I could have retired many years ago.

Can't blame her for that one. :nono:

That's the problem with TOL: too many lawyers. oly:

 

[Pragmatic_Liberal]

TAXES

Where do you think the money comes from that pays PUBLIC sector employees?

More talismanic waving of words. Can't you form an argument? HOW do taxes justify treating public and private sector differently? I can understand if you can't form a paragraph, but at least try to squeeze out a sentence. Use your words!

Seriously, if you have a legitimate point to make, don't be afraid to actually make it. I'm sensing a little panic from you, but I'm still convinced there are valid points to be made on either side.

Yes, public sector employees are paid via taxes. That rather obvious fact has not escaped my attention. In fact, taxes pay for EVERYTHING our government does - shocking, I know. How does that justify giving them fewer rights than private sector employees, engaging in command pricing, or breaking the labor market? And how do you justify protesting this rather minor expense, but remaining silent about giving 10s of billions of dollars to oil companies who are already raking in record profits? Please explain your thinking on this.

PL

 

[tetelestai]

Can't you form an argument?

I have, but you are only interested in establishing yourself as the smartest person in the thread instead of addressing my argument.

HOW do taxes justify treating public and private sector differently?

Because the more money and benefits the greedy PUBLIC sector unions ask for, the more my taxes go up.

 

[Ktoyou]

But he's right . . .

It depends on how one understands it, he would be right on points, if he read it as part of an English course.

 

[Delmar]

Barbarian, regarding racism in the tea party:
It's enough of a problem that the very people who set up the campaign are now worried about it.

So the republicans are lying about it? To what end?



So they want the tea party people to stop showing signs assailing Jews and blacks because they don't want to lose control of their party?

Don't you think there could be other reasons?

Delmar observes that when he catches the barbarian race pimping again by accusing the Tea Party without evidence of "showing signs assailing Jews and blacks" the barbarians defense is "the Republicans are calling them racist too".

Am I saying that there are no racists in the Tea Party movement? No I am not. I am also certain that there are racist Republicans and racist Democrats. My point is this...

Delmar has pointed out to the barbarian, in the past, that if examples of "showing signs assailing Jews and blacks" were common, the barbarian easily be able to quickly come up with dozens and dozens of examples of this with a quick Google search instead of the two or three examples he was able to provide, when I busted him for race pimping last time!

Racism is real. It really does harm to people and standing against it is too important to use for political advantage against your enemies! You should be ashamed of yourself!

 

[zoo22]

You won't find a Republican, Tea Partier, or any other conservative that cares whether a PRIVATE company unionizes.

lain:

Huh? Of course you will. Just check in with Chrysostom.

We'll see what happens with Walker's shenanigans. I certainly don't believe he's a hero, but on a bright side, maybe it's thrust some union issues into the public eye enough that we can begin taking a reasonable look at problems with unions, and find ways to make them work better... I believe the unions in the US need a serious overhaul. I do believe unions are important. I don't believe taking away collective bargaining rights is right. Private or public.