Good grief naatmi. Our Father in heaven has allowed his children to go through far more than Jesus went through, and he asks us who are going through trials and suffering at the hands of God haters to consider them but light and momentary compared to the glory that we shall experience on the other side. I'm sure Jesus felt the same way about his passion and he's the one who had to go through it, not God (though it could be argued that at some point, such as when he felt abandoned, he might not have had assurance it would all turn out for the better.)
You keep pointing to Jesus' passion as evidence of the terribleness of sin and proof positive that your sin and mine is so bad that we deserve eternal conscious torment, but your math is off. By a country mile. One man, suffers for one day, so justice is served and not "winked at," for billions of people, whos justice if served would entail an eternity of suffering.
You do the math.
math.. You think you can calculate John 3:16 :nono: You have a deplorably shallow regard for what the Lord did for us. What has caused your heart to become so dull?
It's obvious the crucifiction is not about retributive justice.
Retributive justice is the punishment of the transgressor. The Lord's atonement was a substitute for (instead of) retributive justice. Retributive justice has been justifiably set aside when people repent because of the atonement.
It's also not about maintaining law and order as would be the case when a civil magistrate doesn't just give everybody a get out of jail free card.
"to declare his
righteousness for the remission of sins that are past"
"To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness:
that he might be just"
Nobody ever uses Jesus as an example to keep people in line.
It's a given. You're a straight up blasphemer if you think God would put His son through that without it being absolutely necessary. Eye for an eye. God wouldn't command that unless it was absolutely necessary either. If you don't believe Moses then you won't believe the Lord either. People think the atonement was magic or something. They're taught it was to cure Augustinian original sin.
"
If ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here
in fear: Forasmuch as
ye know that ye were not redeemed with
corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the
precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot"
"He that despised Moses' law
died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much
sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden
under foot the Son of God, and hath
counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
Nobody in the bible ever says "Remember Jesus suffering on the cross? That's going to be your sad state of affairs if you don't repent and obey God's law." Neither do they say, "Remeber Jesus suffering on the cross? That's just a small, finite example of your sad state of affairs for all eternity if you don't repent and obey God's law."
It's a given. Eye for an eye. The fear of God is the beginning of knowledge.
The bible teaches the wages of sin is death. Not torture. Not eternal suffering.
You're a liberal! Eye for an eye.
Not a day of torture for someone else so we don't have to be either tortured for a time in this life or suffer for all eternity.
You think Jesus Christ was just some guy. "For God so loved the world that whatever he apparently gave some guy that whoever is a liberal can decorate their numb presumptuousness with some creative doctrine even though it wasn't necessary" - thanks some guy, now not fearing God feels more religious and special.
You're amazing, you say the atonement was just "so what" "big deal" "everyone has bad days" when we're talking about our perfect innocent humble Creator suffering for His evil enemies, but if it's wicked sinners then "oh my!" "oh no! hell is much too harsh!" "we wouldn't want them to suffer too much!" - whose side are you on then?
Liberals always pity the guilty and disregard the innocent.
God's mercy is not for you until you admit you are a hell-deserving sinner (unless you never sinned, but I'd say your stance in this thread proves otherwise).
arty: