ideogenous_mover
New member
yeah I remember Obama saying that. Eh, doesn't always work in the winter time tho where more friction is better....
toldailytopic: Who is really to blame for the rising price of gasoline?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
yeah I remember Obama saying that. Eh, doesn't always work in the winter time tho where more friction is better....
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
Bags of baby lobsters?:wazzup: You sure they weren't crayfish/crawfish/mud bugs, if they were, I'll take all you don't want!
You yankees just don't know good food when its crawling in front of you.:crackup:
As far as the jobs that may have been lost to the fishing/food industry, most of those guys went to the oil clean up operation and better than doubled their hourly wages, not to mention the claims settlements that have been made to the businesses that lost customers/income.
MrDeets
TOL Subscriber
I understand your thought, but I disagree. Quantity can count for something when it comes to working out a price.
Fire Retardant clothing. Outlawing pocket knives. 6' 100% tie off(any time one is above 6' he must be in full harness and secured with a lanyard, which generally is 7-8' long when extended). The massive amount of paperwork required to change operations. The extended safety meetings that often have NOTHING to do with the job at hand. Removal of drilling footage holes(where the rig gets paid by the foot, instead of the day). The use of automation to extremes(much of the new equipment cannot and will not function as well as humans, and are incapable of thought and reaction). Outlawing safety blades(box cutters). The massive amount of safety(again often pointless and indirect) classes required for hand on days off, as well as mandatory leadership classes.<--Any infraction on many of these things results in immediate termination.
Touche
The fish are awesome, still. Shrimp has never been appealing...
Again, Lightbringer is the offshore guy- but here is a basic rundown of personnel on a land rig. On one rig, there are: 22(+/- 2 or 3 for training) Hands(a hand is one single person- its just a habit to call them that), 2 company men that have full time jobs. Plus, 4 men who are directional drillers/ MWD(computer) hands, a mud logger, a mud engineer, and maybe, saaaay 8-10 superintendant/engineer type folk who can work on/with/for more than 1 rig. So, 33 full time for one rig, and another 12-20 after the support(engineer, super, salesmen, parts, cementers, casing hands). Maybe 40-50 jobs associated with one rig. PLUS, the supplies that the hands must buy keeps small town groceries, restaurants, going. Plus, roughnecks frequent beer joints, poolhalls, liquor stores, strip clubs(I'm not joking- I don't agree, but so many strip joints out here DEPEND on oilfield money), and other random businesses. Out here in West Texas, there are dozens upon dozens of towns that would wither away(literally) if it weren't for the oil produced in the surrounding areas.
I am not a pipeliner, but for every mile of pipeline laid, there are literally dozens of jobs that must be filled to complete it.
I know that one offshore rig employs more hands, but they are self sufficient, preparing food for the hands, entertainment(kind of), etc. So, I think their effect on the localish community may not be as great. I sent Lightbringer a message and asked him to drop by this thread to help me illustrate more clearly. He was a captain(did I already say that) of an offshore rig for longer than I have been alive. He's forgotten more about the oilfield than I'll ever learn.
elohiym
Well-known member
If we had properly designed engines we could go 149 mpg and then the price of fuel would plummet. Watch the film Gashole to learn some shocking facts, like for example Shell Oil company internal documents state the company achieved over 149 mpg with a modified engine decades ago. Here, you can watch the film for free:
| Gashole | |
And here's the trailer:
| Gashole film trailer | |
ideogenous_mover
New member
yeah whatever they were I think they were marketed as 'baby rock lobsters,' don't see them around anymore
Excuse me sir, but I find it absolutely amazing that you'd talk about that in a positive light as such that you are.
Like this is some kind of a good thing. For all those generations of fishermen who took great pride in their occupation as fishermen for our nation. Who were proud to bring up the best seafood that could be tasted.
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
Gotta agree 100% with you deets, as far as additional personnel when considering a self sustained drilling rig or re-work jack-up vessel (called a Lift Barge) add 2 licensed Captains, 2 licensed Mates, 2 licensed Engineers, 4 Cooks, 4 Galley hands and 12 Deck hands, all licensed.
For effect on the local community, most of these companies and their employees and all the supporting companies, live in North East Texas (along the Gulf Coast), the Southern half of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama so if we were to reduce or eliminate anything it would make a lot of the towns in those areas into Ghost Towns.
Most non-oil related people have no idea of the vast industry that the production of energy creates and a big part of that cost is safety and training.
ideogenous_mover
New member
I see what your saying, the old-hands would be driven off by the new-age overkill in terms of regulations or safety. well, yeah. There's got to be a thin line between what your saying and what the regulators are doing and how much power for lack of a better word is appropriate for either side to handle as the technology and the practice probably inevitably evolve
hmm, sounds exactly like the good old logging industry up in the northern parts here, huh what do ya know
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
I forgot about the rock lobsters...there aren't that many in the gulf so they are not a big market.
Why, an industry was hurt due to the spill and those people were compensated? Life goes on and the fishermen as well as all the others are back to work and making money and catching good seafood once again, not to mention all the money they made during the clean up process? If you where more familiar with the fishing industry you would know that each season is different to a point and many fishermen go belly up even without any man made disaster.
MrDeets
TOL Subscriber
I agree, somewhat. The oilfield(as well as logging/fishing, etc.) is a dangerous profession. When the companies see that incidents are getting out of hand, they inact change. They do so to keep employees safe(no one wants to work for a company that will kill you by negligence), and increase profit. Accidents cost LOTS of money. Since you say oil companies are so greedy, wouldn't follow that they will inact safety changes and regs on their own, to maximize profit while maintaining efficiency? OSHA regs are as much about folks feeling safe as they are being safe.
Very similar in many ways... good, hardworking folk, them boys!
ideogenous_mover
New member
well, yeah, your probably right about that, businesses do go belly up as such, and I don't actually know much about your industries out there.
What I was trying to say to you is that, doubling your wages cleaning up oil cannot be as sustainable as collecting clean fish for an unforeseeable future. And if they have indeed gone back to fishing, good for them, but much of what I hear and read is skeptical about the ongoing environmental situation out there. and I have heard of people getting really sick cleaning up the oil. So, I always had a part of me that does enjoy the sea I hate to think it's getting wrecked
ideogenous_mover
New member
I agree with you to the point that accidents remain expensive, as long as you have something like an OSHA around or some kind of liberal government thing to balance it out. That would probably be enough to keep them up on the regs and the safety all on their own
however, like in china you got apple going in there they don't care about the people there, you can scrub down apple ipads with dangerous chemicals and kill your nervous system and work in crowded half-built factories for 26 hours a crack, because there is nothing like a gov regulator around and its a tax haven
yup, quite the characters
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
Two posts and I haven't made a statement about the thread, sorry.
Who is responsible for the gas prices going up? We, the users are! We have become accustomed to driving every where without giving any thought to it due to low gas prices of yester year, well yester year is long gone but our driving mileage is increasing putting a bigger demand on the producers and we are still driving without thinking about it until the gas pump gives us the bill.
You want to control the price to a point, reduce the demand, when the service stations and the refinery's see that their profit margins are going down they will give an incentive to buy gasoline by lowering the price.
None of you guys remember the gas wars back in the 50's do you?
Who is responsible for the gas prices going up? We, the users are! We have become accustomed to driving every where without giving any thought to it due to low gas prices of yester year, well yester year is long gone but our driving mileage is increasing putting a bigger demand on the producers and we are still driving without thinking about it until the gas pump gives us the bill.
You want to control the price to a point, reduce the demand, when the service stations and the refinery's see that their profit margins are going down they will give an incentive to buy gasoline by lowering the price.
None of you guys remember the gas wars back in the 50's do you?
MrDeets
TOL Subscriber
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
We all hate to see our environment damaged! At least I hope we all do!
As for people getting sick, yes sir some did, some can't handle the smell, some have a reaction to the vapors, some didn't wear their protective equipment all the time?
I didn't mean to imply that the clean up process was even thought of as a sustainable option to daily wages, only that the process gave well paying jobs to those that applied (fishermen or any one) which would help them get through the tough times.
A part of me hates to think that the sea will become so polluted that it will stop producing all the sea food it has in the past, but it is a reality that is coming in our future if we don't take serious steps now.
When I was a kid, I lived on Mobile Bay (for 2 years) I think it was 1958, the Bay at that time was so polluted they posted signs along the waters edge, "No fishing, crabbing, wadding or swimming"...the water was so polluted you could get sick by wadding through it. Fortunately Alabama got wise and started a clean up effort and the Bay turned around within 10 years.
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
:maxi: I don't either, it's call a Harley Davidson Low Rider :nananana:
ideogenous_mover
New member
ah I see, sorry for reacting immediately to you like that then lightbringer. Good talking to ya'll. interesting stuff. I see we are getting a bit off topic here
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
No need to apologize!
MrDeets
TOL Subscriber
