The word "children" isn't in there. It says "unto the fathers by the prophets". Nothing about children. Notice also it says "the" fathers, NOT "our" fathers.
That would be believers in Christ.
believers
believers
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toldailytopic: Who and what are angels? What do we know about them, and what is their
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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The word "children" isn't in there. It says "unto the fathers by the prophets". Nothing about children. Notice also it says "the" fathers, NOT "our" fathers.
That would be believers in Christ.
believers
believers
I had an open-eyed vision once while I was sitting in my church quietly praying and worshiping the LORD while the soloist sang. My vision ended when her song ended. In that vision I saw a female gracefully dancing to the song of the soloist.
I believe - that before Christ finished his work and arose that all angels were either men or more beastly-like beings. I believe that God's super-natural visible presence was a male form.
Yet, since Jesus completed the WAY for men to enter him spiritually and enter his kingdom, then both men and women are allowed in the the kingdom as saints and each are allowed to have their own visible male or female image as they appear before our Lord. Their saintly image awaiting them is described in II Corin. 5:1-10 KJV.
I believe - that before Christ finished his work and arose that all angels were either men or more beastly-like beings. I believe that God's super-natural visible presence was a male form.
Yet, since Jesus completed the WAY for men to enter him spiritually and enter his kingdom, then both men and women are allowed in the the kingdom as saints and each are allowed to have their own visible male or female image as they appear before our Lord. Their saintly image awaiting them is described in II Corin. 5:1-10 KJV.
Pure, finite intellects.
They fill out a certain part of the chain of being. They stand between the Divine Intellect (eternal self-intellection) and humanity (rational animals).
Not humans that are alive. I believe that angelic super-natural presences may look like men ... especially since the presence of Adam was form after the image God created before all other creatures.
Colossians 1:15 KJV.
Actually, angels don't look like men ... but rather created men favor the male angelic image of God.
I happen to believe that any male image revealed to mankind is God's specific image on a mission for him.
I believe that chapters in Gen. 18-19 KJV reveal to us THREE super-natural (angelic) male presences, who were all working in ONE ACCORD to complete God's personal mission of judgment here on earth. I believe that they were all the ONE image of God named Lord... for Abraham only referred to them as LORD and lords. Therefore, they were like angelic triplets in appearance.
Because they were identical ... this is how the angry mob knew to go to Lot's house that night to get the other two angelic beings at his home. You see, The LORD that came into town and did remain in the streets that night acting like a judge looked just like the two earlier fellows who went home with Lot.
That ONE FELLOW that was acting like their judge was the third LORD ... who stayed back with Abraham to explain what they were about to do.
These 3 looked like men ... because they bore the original image used by God before the world was... the image after which HE fashioned the likeness of Adam's body and that of his descendants.
Is it any wonder that God used his own image for man's likeness? He wanted his future eternal children to favor Him.
So, you see, some of the male angelic presences are divinely unique.
The Graphite
New member
And now we found the part where I disagree with you. :chuckle:
Mankind's continual striving of exaltation/deification of self and his supposed "goodness" continues, and the Genesis 3:6 "...ye shall be as gods...." desire of humanity continues, and "Angel Mania" continues to this day(angel jewelry and figurines, books about angels, angel paintings, angel songs, angel movies like "Angels in the Outfield" and "City of Angels", angel TV shows like "Highway to Heaven" and "Touched by an Angel", the most recent TV commercial a few years ago presenting a female angel,.......................................) And thus scripture is fulfilled again, as it is written:
"....every man did what was right in his own eyes." Judges 17:6, 21:25
"Every way of man is right on his own eyes...." Proverbs 21:2
I am "mostly" leaving out any "philosophical" discussions here. As Jack Webb would say, I am presenting "just the facts".
A few facts from scripture regarding angels:
-Not once are they presented as woman(female) or children. They are always referred to in the masculine gender. There is not one mention of a female or "child" angel in all of scripture:
Genesis 18:2,16;19:1,4-5,10,12/Judges 13:6/Daniel 9:21,10:18/Matthew 28:2.3/Mark 16:5/Luke 1:28,29; 24:4,23/Acts 1:10; 10:3,30/ The Revelation 21:17
-Angels are spirits(Psalms 104:4, Hebrews 1:14) and have not "flesh and bones"(Luke 24:39)
- They are "wingless"(only exception are the special class of angels-Seraphim-Isaiah 6:2-7/Cherubim-Ezekiel 10:1-15). The only mention of a "winged woman" in scripture is in Zechariah 5:5-9, and this creature is demonic!
-We are not to worship them(Colossians 2:18/ Revelation 19:10, 22:9), pray to them(scripture's continual testimony is that all prayer is to be directed to God alone), idolize them(Exodus 20:4,5/2 Kings 17:6/Acts 7:43), nor are we to look to them for guidance(Isaiah 47:13,14).
-There are "evil angels": Psalms 78:49/Matthew 25:41. "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light"(2 Corinthians 11:14).
Many assert that angels, angelic "visits,".....is about hope, faith.............. It seems that most think that faith/hope means that if we believe hard enough and sincerely enough, things will turn out the way we want. Thus, their faith is in faith.
Biblical faith, in contrast, means we trust God-period. Not in angels, or "...an angel from heaven...."(Galatians 1:8), not in our pastor, not in our priest, not in a preacher, not in a "TV evangelist", not in "Mary" or "saints"(to Roman Catholics), not in others, and especially not in ourselves, and not in a particular result or happy ending. We trust in Him, knowing that whatever the outcome may be, life will still be "OK" because He is in control. And biblical hope, contrary to the 20th century version of a "pipe dream", always means "confident expectation" because of the one who is the object of that hope-God in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.
"....every man did what was right in his own eyes." Judges 17:6, 21:25
"Every way of man is right on his own eyes...." Proverbs 21:2
I am "mostly" leaving out any "philosophical" discussions here. As Jack Webb would say, I am presenting "just the facts".
A few facts from scripture regarding angels:
-Not once are they presented as woman(female) or children. They are always referred to in the masculine gender. There is not one mention of a female or "child" angel in all of scripture:
Genesis 18:2,16;19:1,4-5,10,12/Judges 13:6/Daniel 9:21,10:18/Matthew 28:2.3/Mark 16:5/Luke 1:28,29; 24:4,23/Acts 1:10; 10:3,30/ The Revelation 21:17
-Angels are spirits(Psalms 104:4, Hebrews 1:14) and have not "flesh and bones"(Luke 24:39)
- They are "wingless"(only exception are the special class of angels-Seraphim-Isaiah 6:2-7/Cherubim-Ezekiel 10:1-15). The only mention of a "winged woman" in scripture is in Zechariah 5:5-9, and this creature is demonic!
-We are not to worship them(Colossians 2:18/ Revelation 19:10, 22:9), pray to them(scripture's continual testimony is that all prayer is to be directed to God alone), idolize them(Exodus 20:4,5/2 Kings 17:6/Acts 7:43), nor are we to look to them for guidance(Isaiah 47:13,14).
-There are "evil angels": Psalms 78:49/Matthew 25:41. "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light"(2 Corinthians 11:14).
Many assert that angels, angelic "visits,".....is about hope, faith.............. It seems that most think that faith/hope means that if we believe hard enough and sincerely enough, things will turn out the way we want. Thus, their faith is in faith.
Biblical faith, in contrast, means we trust God-period. Not in angels, or "...an angel from heaven...."(Galatians 1:8), not in our pastor, not in our priest, not in a preacher, not in a "TV evangelist", not in "Mary" or "saints"(to Roman Catholics), not in others, and especially not in ourselves, and not in a particular result or happy ending. We trust in Him, knowing that whatever the outcome may be, life will still be "OK" because He is in control. And biblical hope, contrary to the 20th century version of a "pipe dream", always means "confident expectation" because of the one who is the object of that hope-God in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Oh well, it was good while it lasted. I plan to be in God's kingdom in a superfied female form. I believe the saints (male and female) in their white robes are just waiting to put on their resurrected superfied glory.
But read Gen.18 and Gen. 19, which I mentioned in another post. Read it very carefully. Use your best reading skills to look for clues that are logical or miraculous. You'll see my ideas about the 3 divine angelic beings begin to unfold.
The Graphite
New member
Absolutely, there are. I listed several in my first post in this thread, regarding the Hebrew word "ma'lak" which is translated not only as "messenger" but also as "ambassador" and "workman" in the OT. Context dictates whether a passage is referring to a supernatural messenger/ambassador from heaven or a mere human messenger, an angelic prince(ipality) or a human prince, etc.
I see reference as most of you about angel messengers. What I also believe is that angels are not sexed, or like men, mostly a spirit as man is used for both male and female, angel is used for neutral, or undivided, nor do they procreate.
Sons of God and daughters of men may mean no more than women having lower status, or it might mean other creations, yet show me one verse where it clearly says Sons of God were angels.
Sons of God and daughters of men may mean no more than women having lower status, or it might mean other creations, yet show me one verse where it clearly says Sons of God were angels.
Hi john w,
You wrote:
I so agree. Most people would say that Jesus looked like man... but the truth is that Jesus looked like the super-natural image of the Father. It is men, who look like Jesus for Jesus shared the super-natural glory with God before the world began. John 17:5 KJV
You wrote:
I agree - especially regarding the mention of OT angelic beings and in the book of Revelation.
For before Christ arose ... no one had entered the kingdom by having the spirit in them. The angels in the book of Revelation are God's representatives coming to do his bidding ... just like the three did in Gen. 18 and 19. Just like the three ... those angels are all male. God is represented by the male form - not the female.
Females may prophesy in public, BUT they must either cut their feminine hair short like a male presence or, at least, cover her curls ... in order that her presence represents the likeness of the male image of our LORD in public view. But when it comes to her individuality in the kingdom, she will retain her uniqueness.
You wrote:
I agree.
You wrote:
I disagree, there were angelic beings that were allowed to be worshiped. In fact, some men like Abraham, Ezekiel, and others fell to the ground in a bow or prostrate position and paid homage to (worshiped) certain super-natural males.
You wrote:
I agree that not angels are good. I agree that men should listen to the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
You wrote:
I so agree. Most people would say that Jesus looked like man... but the truth is that Jesus looked like the super-natural image of the Father. It is men, who look like Jesus for Jesus shared the super-natural glory with God before the world began. John 17:5 KJV
You wrote:
I agree - especially regarding the mention of OT angelic beings and in the book of Revelation.
For before Christ arose ... no one had entered the kingdom by having the spirit in them. The angels in the book of Revelation are God's representatives coming to do his bidding ... just like the three did in Gen. 18 and 19. Just like the three ... those angels are all male. God is represented by the male form - not the female.
Females may prophesy in public, BUT they must either cut their feminine hair short like a male presence or, at least, cover her curls ... in order that her presence represents the likeness of the male image of our LORD in public view. But when it comes to her individuality in the kingdom, she will retain her uniqueness.
You wrote:
I agree.
You wrote:
I disagree, there were angelic beings that were allowed to be worshiped. In fact, some men like Abraham, Ezekiel, and others fell to the ground in a bow or prostrate position and paid homage to (worshiped) certain super-natural males.
You wrote:
I agree that not angels are good. I agree that men should listen to the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
elohiym
Well-known member
Yes.
One time stands out in particular. I was in Europe as a teenager. A twist of circumstances while I was briefly living in Holland forced me to travel to Switzerland. There I ended up in the town of Chur.
At this point in my travels, I was lost...emotionally and mentally, for lack of a better description of my mindset at the time. I was also running low on funds and options.
When I arrived that the local Youth Hostile, it was closed and would not open until later in the afternoon. Being the impatient teenager I was, and wanting to ditch my backpack so I could roam the town a bit before evening, I decided to try a window and slip my backpack into the building. To do that I crossed over a chain with a sign hanging that in English basically communicated, "Don't cross over this chain."
While engaging in that manuever I heard a calm voice speaking to me from a window above, "Would you like me to sick my dog on you?" I looked up, realized the stupidity of what I was doing, and just lost it emotionally. The guy took pity on me, and told me to relax and just leave the backpack right there where he'd watch it, and told me to take a hike up a nearby mountain trail to walk it off.
This was a beautiful below tree line trail along the side of the mountain close to the Youth Hostile. It was deserted except for me; I could see far enough behind me and far enough in front of me to know I was alone. At least I though I was alone.
Along the way I passed an empty bench on the side of the trail. I didn't go more that about 50 feet further up the trail before turning around to go down. When I looked at the bench, there was Nun in a full habit. I was very surprised because I was certain I was the only one on the trail, and certain the bench was empty when I passed it.
And then it got stranger.
I had been tearing up along the walk because of all the emotions I was experiencing at that time. Perhaps the Nun noticed I had been crying because she said to me, in English, something like "Are you okay?" Now, I'm thinking, "This is weird, because she's speaking English without knowing what language I speak."
Anyway, to make a long story short, she comforted me and lifted my mood. She imparted confidence and assurance to me, and then sent me on my way. I never saw here again, and never encountered another English speaking Nun in Chur. I've always wondered about that encounter.
_________
"We are not to worship them(Colossians 2:18/ Revelation 19:10, 22:9), pray to them(scripture's continual testimony is that all prayer is to be directed to God alone), idolize them(Exodus 20:4,5/2 Kings 17:6/Acts 7:43), nor are we to look to them for guidance(Isaiah 47:13,14).'-John W
"I disagree, there were angelic beings that were allowed to be worshiped. In fact, some men like Abraham, Ezekiel, and others fell to the ground in a bow or prostrate position and paid homage to (worshiped) certain super-natural males."-Ps82
Nope. We are not to worship angels-any worship of angels was rebuked. Abraham worshiped "the angel of the Lord," the "pre-incarnate" Lord Jesus Christ.
Please review the numerous "the angel of the LORD" passages, which clearly points to the LORD(God the Father) and the "angel of the LORD" as distinct, separate "persons", and yet the angel of the LORD, which is the pre-incarnated person of the Lord Jesus Christ(as is the Joshua 5 passage-"captain of the LORD's host"), is also declared as diety. Example:
"And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman..." Judges 13:3
"Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A MAN(emphasis mine) of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name..." Judges 13:6
"For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and FELL ON THEIR FACES TO THE GROUND(emphasis mine). But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD.22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN GOD(emphasis mine)." Judges 13: 20-22
Again:
"And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
Now Jericho was straitly shut up because of the children of Israel: none went out, and none came in.And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour." Josh. 5:13-6:2
Notice:
"For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings." Heb. 2:10
"And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground." Exodus 3:5
"Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy." Josh. 5:15
Joshua was required to put his shoes off his feet, and show the same reverence, worship to the "man"(verse 13), to the "captain of the host of the LORD"(verse 14), none other than the pre-incarnate Lord Jesus Christ, in the likeness of a man, that Moses had shown to Him as God in "The Burning Bush." Thus, He who is called a "man" in verse 13, is declared to be Jehovah/the LORD in Joshua 6:2:
"And the LORD said unto Joshua,.....
Thus, the theme throughout the scripture:The Lord Jesus Christ is both God and man.
The "fathers" of those to whom the writer of Hebrews was writing.:dunce::duh:
So, the writer was writing to the "children" of those "fathers." Who were those "fathers"? The fathers of the nation of Israel.:dunce::duh:
No. It would be the disciples [the 12 and others who followed].
No. These two were specifically the 12. Try reading the context for once in your life.
The Graphite
New member
I'm kind of disappointed this thread didn't generate more interest and participation.
I'd like to add another observation or two, about angels. I know a lot of immature Christians (and those young in their faith) get caught up in the "coolness" factor of angels, with their powers and their great might, the wings, the flaming sword, face like lightning, eyes like flaming torches, the general ability to inspire great awe in whomever they appear to. And that's understandable, albeit unfortunate.
So many Christians fail to realize that relational qualities like love, faith, perseverance, patience, etc. (qualitative traits) are far more important than things like power, supernatural knowledge, etc. (quantitative traits). The Holy Spirit certainly made this point clear to the Corinthians, warning against becoming "clanging brass," and so on.
But, should Christians envy the angels or wish we could be more like them? Honestly, I don't think so. I mean, sure, who hasn't been stuck in rush hour traffic and wished they could just pick up their car and fly through the air like Superman to get to work on time? Or, even forget about selfish desires - wishing one had the ability to cause an earthquake that would free persecuted saints from their unjust imprisonment in places like China? The ability to protect the innocent by scaring off muggers! So, should we envy the angels? I say no.
Much can be made of the Lord's propensity for swapping the positions of many people in the Bible. For example, the younger son being placed above the older (or firstborn) son. This happens numerous times in the Old Testament in well-known stories of Cain & Abel, Ishmael & Isaac, Esau & Jacob, Joseph & his brothers, and even in the grander spiritual level, Jesus Christ is the "second Adam" and supercedes the first Adam. Jesus told us, again and again, that the last shall be first, and the first shall be last, and this is born out throughout much of scripture.
And among the created beings God made in the beginning, which came first? The angels were children of God, and they came first. Human beings were to be children of God, and they were created second. And so... human beings serve the angels, and minister to the angels, and battle evil forces on behalf of the angels? On the contrary, the reverse is true! The angels are called not only to serve and minister to the Lord at His throne in heaven, but also to serve as ambassadors to the world (to both the righteous and the wicked at various times) and to minister to His holy people in particular. And Paul teaches us that, someday, we will judge not only the world, but we will judge angels!
The first is last, and the last is first.
Not to mention that the Bible promises the saints that they will have "rest" in their eternal lives. Yes, of course we will also worship, and I am sure we will have work to do, in service to the Lord (work that will be a joy). But the Bible also promises rest, as well. Yet, I am unaware of any biblical reference that says the angels "rest" in any way. And, while scripture is largely silent on the subject, the only reference I am personally aware of that addresses whether any kind of heavenly angelic being ever rests actually refers to at least some such beings NEVER resting (Rev. 4:8)
So, should we envy angels? Frankly, I don't envy them, Sure, the powers are cool, in a comic-booky kind of way, but I think that's a pretty immature attitude to take, toward them.
Angels are a relevant area of study, and I think it's unfortunate that so many theologically conservative Christians are almost afraid to delve into angelology -- the Bible certainly does talk a lot about them, so it is clearly a relevant area of doctrinal study! -- but of course our focus ultimately need to be on Jesus Christ, and on loving Him and loving people, all to His glory.
(I have another point I'd like to make, about keeping angels in their proper place within doctrinal study and the Christian walk, but that will have to wait until later, hopefully later tonight!)
I'd like to add another observation or two, about angels. I know a lot of immature Christians (and those young in their faith) get caught up in the "coolness" factor of angels, with their powers and their great might, the wings, the flaming sword, face like lightning, eyes like flaming torches, the general ability to inspire great awe in whomever they appear to. And that's understandable, albeit unfortunate.
So many Christians fail to realize that relational qualities like love, faith, perseverance, patience, etc. (qualitative traits) are far more important than things like power, supernatural knowledge, etc. (quantitative traits). The Holy Spirit certainly made this point clear to the Corinthians, warning against becoming "clanging brass," and so on.
But, should Christians envy the angels or wish we could be more like them? Honestly, I don't think so. I mean, sure, who hasn't been stuck in rush hour traffic and wished they could just pick up their car and fly through the air like Superman to get to work on time? Or, even forget about selfish desires - wishing one had the ability to cause an earthquake that would free persecuted saints from their unjust imprisonment in places like China? The ability to protect the innocent by scaring off muggers! So, should we envy the angels? I say no.
Much can be made of the Lord's propensity for swapping the positions of many people in the Bible. For example, the younger son being placed above the older (or firstborn) son. This happens numerous times in the Old Testament in well-known stories of Cain & Abel, Ishmael & Isaac, Esau & Jacob, Joseph & his brothers, and even in the grander spiritual level, Jesus Christ is the "second Adam" and supercedes the first Adam. Jesus told us, again and again, that the last shall be first, and the first shall be last, and this is born out throughout much of scripture.
And among the created beings God made in the beginning, which came first? The angels were children of God, and they came first. Human beings were to be children of God, and they were created second. And so... human beings serve the angels, and minister to the angels, and battle evil forces on behalf of the angels? On the contrary, the reverse is true! The angels are called not only to serve and minister to the Lord at His throne in heaven, but also to serve as ambassadors to the world (to both the righteous and the wicked at various times) and to minister to His holy people in particular. And Paul teaches us that, someday, we will judge not only the world, but we will judge angels!
The first is last, and the last is first.
Not to mention that the Bible promises the saints that they will have "rest" in their eternal lives. Yes, of course we will also worship, and I am sure we will have work to do, in service to the Lord (work that will be a joy). But the Bible also promises rest, as well. Yet, I am unaware of any biblical reference that says the angels "rest" in any way. And, while scripture is largely silent on the subject, the only reference I am personally aware of that addresses whether any kind of heavenly angelic being ever rests actually refers to at least some such beings NEVER resting (Rev. 4:8)
So, should we envy angels? Frankly, I don't envy them, Sure, the powers are cool, in a comic-booky kind of way, but I think that's a pretty immature attitude to take, toward them.
Angels are a relevant area of study, and I think it's unfortunate that so many theologically conservative Christians are almost afraid to delve into angelology -- the Bible certainly does talk a lot about them, so it is clearly a relevant area of doctrinal study! -- but of course our focus ultimately need to be on Jesus Christ, and on loving Him and loving people, all to His glory.
(I have another point I'd like to make, about keeping angels in their proper place within doctrinal study and the Christian walk, but that will have to wait until later, hopefully later tonight!)
OMEGA
New member
Don't you guys check out the Crop Circles that show the basic makeup of the
Greys.
They are similar to Humans in their DNA structure but their bodies are made
of a Silicon derivative.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...ttP0kOulQ&sig2=y3yi71dhGsOP3l8AxA6PSA&cad=rja
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=...a=X&ei=ibV9TLD1B4LCnAf_l7mdCw&ved=0CBoQ9QEwAg
Greys.
They are similar to Humans in their DNA structure but their bodies are made
of a Silicon derivative.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...ttP0kOulQ&sig2=y3yi71dhGsOP3l8AxA6PSA&cad=rja
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=...a=X&ei=ibV9TLD1B4LCnAf_l7mdCw&ved=0CBoQ9QEwAg
The Graphite
New member
WWAD?
I also wanted to make another observation about the immature attitude many have toward angels, particularly those who want to be like them, wish they could be angels, to have all of their "cool" powers, etc. People who might hypothetically ask the question WWAD? Ie. What would angels do? We don't have to be afraid to ask that question, though. I mean, really, what would an angel do? When wanting to know "Who and what am I? How should I live? Who should I be? What should I do?"
What would an angel do, when confronted with such questions? Would he look to other angels for the answers? Of course not. Where would he turn to? To whom would he look for answers?
The Lord. Jesus Christ. That would be their focus. Not angels, but the Lord! Didn't the Lord, Himself, tell us that their faces are turned always toward God? (Matt. 18:10)
Does not Jesus command the angels? Is He not the Lord of Shabaoth (ie. the Lord of "Hosts," which carries the connotation of army)? Will He not return with His angels? Will He not send His angels over the earth to judge men, to separate the righteous from the wicked so that the wicked will be thrown into the lake of fire?
They are the angels of the Lord. He is The Angel of the Lord.
They are the sons of God. He is The Son of God.
They are "the holy ones." He is "The Holy One."
They are "stars." He is "The Bright and Morning Star."
The body of people known as the angels of the heavenly host have a "head." Who is that head? Christ. (Col. 2:10)
So, to whom do they look for answers, for the truth, for direction, for commandment, for fulfillment of their calling? To Christ!
So, if you find yourself wondering, "What would angels do?" ... the answer is "Look to Christ. Look to the Lord. Keep your eyes on Him!" If you're not doing that - if you are looking to angels to understand who you are, what your calling is, what to do and how to live - then you are not living according to the question "WWAD?"
I also wanted to make another observation about the immature attitude many have toward angels, particularly those who want to be like them, wish they could be angels, to have all of their "cool" powers, etc. People who might hypothetically ask the question WWAD? Ie. What would angels do? We don't have to be afraid to ask that question, though. I mean, really, what would an angel do? When wanting to know "Who and what am I? How should I live? Who should I be? What should I do?"
What would an angel do, when confronted with such questions? Would he look to other angels for the answers? Of course not. Where would he turn to? To whom would he look for answers?
The Lord. Jesus Christ. That would be their focus. Not angels, but the Lord! Didn't the Lord, Himself, tell us that their faces are turned always toward God? (Matt. 18:10)
Does not Jesus command the angels? Is He not the Lord of Shabaoth (ie. the Lord of "Hosts," which carries the connotation of army)? Will He not return with His angels? Will He not send His angels over the earth to judge men, to separate the righteous from the wicked so that the wicked will be thrown into the lake of fire?
They are the angels of the Lord. He is The Angel of the Lord.
They are the sons of God. He is The Son of God.
They are "the holy ones." He is "The Holy One."
They are "stars." He is "The Bright and Morning Star."
The body of people known as the angels of the heavenly host have a "head." Who is that head? Christ. (Col. 2:10)
So, to whom do they look for answers, for the truth, for direction, for commandment, for fulfillment of their calling? To Christ!
So, if you find yourself wondering, "What would angels do?" ... the answer is "Look to Christ. Look to the Lord. Keep your eyes on Him!" If you're not doing that - if you are looking to angels to understand who you are, what your calling is, what to do and how to live - then you are not living according to the question "WWAD?"
Hello everybody...
Just jumping in with some thoughts on angels.
First, I would like to use the term super-natural beings instead of the word angels, for I think that is what visible angels are.
Second, God had an image for representing him. (Gen.1:26-27 KJV)
IT was a super-natural presence to represent Him within the creation. That's why we read it interchangeably referred to as the angel of the LORD or the angel of God.
It was after THIS IMAGE that God created mankind a visible form... but man's form was lacking the glory of the super-natural image of God and the other super-natural beings. (Man was naked.)
I believe there were certain super-natural beings that would appear to us more like creatures or very unusual beasts ... but some super-natural visible beings were very human-like (except for their marvelous level of glory.)
I believe that Adam and Woman (Eve) saw the glory of the angelic presence belonging to the LORD God ... and saw the glory displayed by the other super-natural beings ... and desired to be LIKE THEM. They started out naked, but were not ashamed. It was only after they tried to obtain the wisdom and physical glory of the super-natural that they became ashamed that they were still naked. After all, they had risked it all ... to obtain these things.
I happen to conclude that angelic beings who look like MALES all only represent God's presence. These images representing the invisible God come within the creation on God's business.
Since I believe that God is infinite eternal life ... then I believe that all aspects of his nature is ALIVE. Therefore, God can single out aspects of nature such as his power, his word, his judgment, and etc. and they are each and all just as ALIVE as HE.
Therefore, I ponder that all the male super-natural beings each come representing his pluralistic living nature.
Yet, God did single out THE WORD, the TRUTH, the LIGHT, and the LIFE to represent aspects of the SAVIOR of mankind. The Messiah is a special entity identified from the nature of God regarding our salvation. In fact, it is said that God gave all of his spiritual nature unto the Savior without doing it by an limited measure. Jesus could surely say that he was ONE with the Father.
Yet, other angels representing God's will within the creation were not equated equal with the entirely of the spirit of God. I believe that is why divine angels like Michael and Gabriel were not to be worshiped while there was a divine presence that was allowed to be worshiped.
I believe that the divine super-natural presenc that was worshiped in OT times represented ALL of God as The LORD ... and then this leads us to understand how the fleshly image of our Lord Jesus represented ALL of God among men in flesh. Our Lord Jesus repeatedly said so.
Regarding the super-natural being - Lucifer/Satan ... I contemplate that he may have been or still be a male presence after the likeness of the image mentioned in Gen.1:26-27 KJV that had at one time walked within the inner circles of our ONE God's nature. However, he may have also looked very different from the male image we know.
Anyway, now he has been cast out of his place ... I am prone to think that heis nature had to do with a collection of knowledge that had been deliberately withheld from mankind - aka the knowledge of good and EVIL. He was the allocated place of containment and separation of the knowledge of EVIL from the creation. In the beginning the creation was GOOD ... but after the fall of mankind ... ONLY GOD is left GOOD.
Lucifer was not to be worshiped equally with the invisible God ... for his measure of allotted identity was not what God planned to use to save men. Therefore, having a measure of freewill in his individual nature given him, he became jealous and wanted to rise above his infinite creator and to control and destroy men, who seemed to be the object of God's affection.
Just jumping in with some thoughts on angels.
First, I would like to use the term super-natural beings instead of the word angels, for I think that is what visible angels are.
Second, God had an image for representing him. (Gen.1:26-27 KJV)
IT was a super-natural presence to represent Him within the creation. That's why we read it interchangeably referred to as the angel of the LORD or the angel of God.
It was after THIS IMAGE that God created mankind a visible form... but man's form was lacking the glory of the super-natural image of God and the other super-natural beings. (Man was naked.)
I believe there were certain super-natural beings that would appear to us more like creatures or very unusual beasts ... but some super-natural visible beings were very human-like (except for their marvelous level of glory.)
I believe that Adam and Woman (Eve) saw the glory of the angelic presence belonging to the LORD God ... and saw the glory displayed by the other super-natural beings ... and desired to be LIKE THEM. They started out naked, but were not ashamed. It was only after they tried to obtain the wisdom and physical glory of the super-natural that they became ashamed that they were still naked. After all, they had risked it all ... to obtain these things.
I happen to conclude that angelic beings who look like MALES all only represent God's presence. These images representing the invisible God come within the creation on God's business.
Since I believe that God is infinite eternal life ... then I believe that all aspects of his nature is ALIVE. Therefore, God can single out aspects of nature such as his power, his word, his judgment, and etc. and they are each and all just as ALIVE as HE.
Therefore, I ponder that all the male super-natural beings each come representing his pluralistic living nature.
Yet, God did single out THE WORD, the TRUTH, the LIGHT, and the LIFE to represent aspects of the SAVIOR of mankind. The Messiah is a special entity identified from the nature of God regarding our salvation. In fact, it is said that God gave all of his spiritual nature unto the Savior without doing it by an limited measure. Jesus could surely say that he was ONE with the Father.
Yet, other angels representing God's will within the creation were not equated equal with the entirely of the spirit of God. I believe that is why divine angels like Michael and Gabriel were not to be worshiped while there was a divine presence that was allowed to be worshiped.
I believe that the divine super-natural presenc that was worshiped in OT times represented ALL of God as The LORD ... and then this leads us to understand how the fleshly image of our Lord Jesus represented ALL of God among men in flesh. Our Lord Jesus repeatedly said so.
Regarding the super-natural being - Lucifer/Satan ... I contemplate that he may have been or still be a male presence after the likeness of the image mentioned in Gen.1:26-27 KJV that had at one time walked within the inner circles of our ONE God's nature. However, he may have also looked very different from the male image we know.
Anyway, now he has been cast out of his place ... I am prone to think that heis nature had to do with a collection of knowledge that had been deliberately withheld from mankind - aka the knowledge of good and EVIL. He was the allocated place of containment and separation of the knowledge of EVIL from the creation. In the beginning the creation was GOOD ... but after the fall of mankind ... ONLY GOD is left GOOD.
Lucifer was not to be worshiped equally with the invisible God ... for his measure of allotted identity was not what God planned to use to save men. Therefore, having a measure of freewill in his individual nature given him, he became jealous and wanted to rise above his infinite creator and to control and destroy men, who seemed to be the object of God's affection.
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