That is blatantly false. Angels are not made in the image of God. They are not his children. They are not new creations in Christ.
toldailytopic: What type, or how many sins does it take to lose ones salvation?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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ThePresbyteers
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This is a topic I struggle with as well. May I suggest a radical solution to the dilemma?
Let me say in advance my solution is merely a theory and I have no real way to know if it's accurate or not. It's also something I have never heard anyone else propose before me (it may have been proposed but I have never heard it before). Therefore if you like my theory you can give me a "pat on the back", but more importantly if you don't like my theory you can blame me entirely for the moronic heresy I must be suggesting.
So here we go....
Keep in mind my theory is only addressing those that are actually saved and then later fall away. I am NOT addressing those that claim to be Christian but never really were.
I think most of us grace believing OSAS folks would agree about the following two conditions:
1. A truly saved person is sealed until the day of redemption and will be welcomed into God's loving arms regardless of the mess ups they may commit after they were sealed by the Holy Spirit. Their sins are covered by Jesus blood.
2. A person who never accepts Jesus work on the cross does not want to be with God in heaven and no matter how good they think they were in life they will go where they desire to go... an eternity separated from God.
But what about those that are truly saved i.e., sealed by the Holy Spirit yet no longer want to be with God in heaven for an eternity? Is it really God's MO to force them to go somewhere that they do not want to be?
Of course not.
But aren't they sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?
Of course they are!
So what's the answer???
May I suggest the following 3rd option to the two options I have stated above. My theory is that these folks who are saved yet no longer desire to be with God are indeed sealed because of their acceptance of Jesus work on the cross. Christ will not deny them because He will not deny Himself. Yet at the same time God will not force them to go where they do not want to go. Therefore God will give them the opportunity to spend eternity apart from Him and His loving grace. For them... there is a choice on the day of redemption. Therefore for these rare instances... on the their day of judgement God will say...
"Your sins have been covered by my blood, therefore you can enter heaven and spend eternity with Me. Yet I know that you no longer desire to be with me and therefore I respect your wishes and will allow you the choice to live with or without me eternally. Choose this day who you will serve."
And at that point they can choose to keep their standing in Christ's body or reject their gift and live apart from Him eternally.
How's that for a bombshell?
Knowing God in an intimate way is not the gospel. It is a byproduct of it. Nang is going to hell, she rejects the gospel.
She rejects that God died for the sin of the world, and beleives she and a few others are cosmic lottery winners.
Really? Did you state something similar? I haven't had time to read all the posts. Which post can you point me to so I can read it.
Great minds think alike? :idunno:
Delmar surmised that heaven is not a prison. He is full of wisdom. I surmise that anybody whose flesh dies and was sealed by the Holy Spirit will want no part of leaving his presense. He also said, "I am sure he will do the right thing". Wise man.
Yeah... I have heard folks assert in the past that those in heaven might be able to leave and be apart from God. But I haven't ever heard anyone suggest that on the day of redemption there might be a choice to be made. Again, I'm sure it's been asserted... I've just never heard it before.
It's an interesting topic. I really don't know the answer, I can only theorize what I feel to be the most likely scenario based on God's character.
Hmmm... ghost I re-read this entire thread. It doesn't seem like you and I are saying anything similar at all. Or maybe that's what you meant? :idunno:
I don't think anybody will want to leave his presence when they face him.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
That was rude of me. I apologize.
Are you kidding me? Your posts are not in agreement with what Knight has said (not that Knight has to be correct).
I am the one who stated that God isn't going to force someone to be with Him that doesn't want to be with Him and you said that people are sealed and there is no way out of it.
I wrote a lengthy response stating that I believe that people are sealed until the day of redemption...but then asked what about after? Is God going to force someone to spend eternity with Him?
Post after post after post I have stated that someone can choose not to be with God after they have "truly believed" and post after post after post you have stated that there is nothing one can do to not be saved.
I posted again that I believe that someone could choose to give up their salvation.
You even went so far as to state that anyone who believed that they could forfeit their salvation is lost and going to Hell. Looks like Knight is going to Hell....right?
I never said that Angels were made in the image of God...only that they know God pretty well don't you think? And they have the opportunity to choose not to be with Him.
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That has nothing to do with us. Nothing whatsoever. They do not know God like we do. Not even close.
I know. I was being sarcastic. If Knight had read my posts, he would not have wasted his time posting something that is not true.
That is correct. And if you knew what salvation is, you would know that I'm correct.
And I addressed that, and showed you why that cannot be.
Yep.
Which is logically impossible.
I believe that if someone is convinced of that and opposes the truth after hearing it, it is an indicator that they have not believed the Gospel.
In the same way that you show someone who says they are saved and denies that Jesus is not God and teaches it to others, it is an indicator that they do not believe in the Jesus of the Bible. Sure, we are all learning, but you cannot just believe what ever you want concerning the Gospel, and still be considered a believer.
I know, that's why I said it.
Neither do I.
chat, this thread is about OSAS, not OBAB.
They can stop believing but they will not lose their salvation.
Scripture?
*cough* whom *cough*
:chuckle:
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I think more sealed unto the day of Judgement.This is a topic I struggle with as well. May I suggest a radical solution to the dilemma?
Let me say in advance my solution is merely a theory and I have no real way to know if it's accurate or not. It's also something I have never heard anyone else propose before me (it may have been proposed but I have never heard it before). Therefore if you like my theory you can give me a "pat on the back", but more importantly if you don't like my theory you can blame me entirely for the moronic heresy I must be suggesting.
So here we go....
Keep in mind my theory is only addressing those that are actually saved and then later fall away. I am NOT addressing those that claim to be Christian but never really were.
I think most of us grace believing OSAS folks would agree about the following two conditions:
1. A truly saved person is sealed until the day of redemption and will be welcomed into God's loving arms regardless of the mess ups they may commit after they were sealed by the Holy Spirit. Their sins are covered by Jesus blood.
2. A person who never accepts Jesus work on the cross does not want to be with God in heaven and no matter how good they think they were in life they will go where they desire to go... an eternity separated from God.
But what about those that are truly saved i.e., sealed by the Holy Spirit yet no longer want to be with God in heaven for an eternity? Is it really God's MO to force them to go somewhere that they do not want to be?
Of course not.
But aren't they sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?
Who or what is the other choice? As God is Life, how can this situation arise?
Believe, but reject eternal life and still live? To me, this is to accept the fictional ideas about the "living dead" and soforth. I do believe, also, that this was the dilemma the Sadducees faced.
It's confusing to me. Give a reread of Luke 15:11-24 (KJV).How's that for a bombshell?
chatmaggot, I like this topic. I enjoy theorizing, and exploring topics. Yet some will quickly count you as the enemy if your beliefs do not lineup with theirs. You have to be careful what you say and choose your words wisely or you get lumped in with the rest. That's very frustrating to me.
If you want to continue to discuss this issue we could do so in a more quiet place. * SootS * cough. Let me know, until then that's all I am going to say about it here.
If you want to continue to discuss this issue we could do so in a more quiet place.
* SootS * cough. Let me know, until then that's all I am going to say about it here.
I consider chatmaggot a friend, as I do you. I just get frustrated when points made from the Bible are ignored in favor of theories that contradict them, especially if it is from people who know better.
I personally can't understand why anyone would walk away from Him if they truly knew Him.