toldailytopic: What about abortion in cases of rape?

[surrender]

I'm sorry to hear that. The sarcasm was over your head.

Oh, I understand sarcasm, I just don’t see a purpose for it in this particular discussion.

Adults use sarcasm far more often than children to get their point across.

I’m guessing you don’t have a teenager?

No, I didn't. I have no problem with abortion.

You didn’t? In post #315 you agreed that it’s possible life begins at conception. In post #304, you answered “yes” to the question, “Are you okay with taking the chance that you might be supporting the option of taking the life of another?” That’s not an admission that you could possibly be an accomplice to murder by allowing doctors to perform abortions? One can support such an option and not be an accomplice? I don’t think so. That’s the very reason I can’t support it. I am an accomplice if I allow doctors to perform murder, and so are you. You agree there’s a chance it is murder (i.e. that this is the termination of another’s life), but you go ahead and allow it anyway.

 

[surrender]

The cells are human . . . so are the cells from a scraping from your inner cheek. It (and they) are not a person in any sense of the word.

So, I'll get this when I scrape the inside of my cheek?

 

[Silent Hunter]

You didn’t?

Nope.

In post #315 you agreed that it’s possible life begins at conception. In post #304, you answered “yes” to the question, “Are you okay with taking the chance that you might be supporting the option of taking the life of another?”

You can twist my answers as you like and put them in any order you wish, it doesn't change my position. Murder is the taking of a person's life. A few cells in a puddle of water isn't a person in any sense of the word.

That’s not an admission that you could possibly be an accomplice to murder by allowing doctors to perform abortions?

No.

One can support such an option and not be an accomplice?

Yes.

I don’t think so.

There you go thinking again.

That’s the very reason I can’t support it.

Your opinion is rejected in favor of my own.

I am an accomplice if I allow doctors to perform murder, and so are you.

Sure . . . of a person. You have yet to come to terms with the meaning of that word.

You agree there’s a chance it is murder (i.e. that this is the termination of another’s life), but you go ahead and allow it anyway.

I don't agree abortion is murder. Which part of "it isn't a person" are you having trouble with?

 

[surrender]

Sure . . . of a person. You have yet to come to terms with the meaning of that word.

I don't agree abortion is murder. Which part of "it isn't a person" are you having trouble with?

You said it's possible it is the termination of "the life of another." Sounds like "a person" to me.

For your convenience:

Are you okay with taking the chance that you might be supporting the option of taking the life of another?

Yes, I am.

 

[Silent Hunter]

So, I'll get this when I scrape the inside of my cheek?

Someday I'm sure, given enough advancement in medicine.

But is it a person? :idunno:.

 

[Silent Hunter]

You said it's possible it is the termination of "the life of another." Sounds like "a person" to me.

You're twisting my answer then inserting words in a context I haven't used. It is absolutely the ending of "life" but it isn't the ending of a person's life. I stand behind my response here.

 

[MaryContrary]

Ad hominems aren't very helpful to the discussion MC. They do provide evidence that you cannot back up your claim(s) however.

Says Mr. "Cells in a puddle".

I thought it was a simple question . . .

Oh, now it's a question.

When does a person become a person and not a few cells in a puddle of water?

"According to Hickman, Roberts, and Larson (1997), any living organism will meet the following seven basic properties of life:

1) Chemical uniqueness. Living systems demonstrate a unique and complex molecular organization.
2) Complexity and hierarchical organization. Living systems demonstrate a unique and complex hierarchical organization.
3) Reproduction. Living systems can reproduce themselves.
4) Possession of a genetic program. A genetic program provides fidelity of inheritance.
5) Metabolism. Living organisms maintain themselves by obtaining nutrients from their environments.
6) Development. All organisms pass through a characteristic life cycle.
7) Environmental reaction. All animals interact with their environment.

An analysis of the fertilized egg must be made to determine if the fertilized egg and the resulting zygote, embryo, and fetus can all be classified as living organisms. Do these entities meet the properties seen in all living organisms?

1) Chemical Uniqueness. Fertilized eggs possess their own unique DNA from conception.
2) Complexity and hierarchical organization. Hickman, Roberts, and Larson (1997) explain that the most basic unit in the biological hierarchy is the cell. The cell holds the properties of living organisms, and cells can be manipulated in the laboratory and can be reproduced, whereas nonliving elements cannot. Therefore, the fertilized egg would meet this criteria, although it would be a more basic unit of the biological hierarchy.
3) Reproduction. Francis Beckwith (1994) observes that the zygote possesses two different methods of reproduction: cell reproduction and twinning. According to Beckwith (1994), twinning is "a form of asexual reproduction, which can occur after conception."
4) Possession of a genetic program. Francis Beckwith (1994) confirms that from conception, the fertilized egg has "its own unique genetic code." The 46 chromosomes present at conception provide all of the genetic information that will ever be needed.
5) Metabolism. Francis Beckwith (1994) confirms that from conception, the fertilized egg meets the requirement of metabolism.
6) Development. Hickman, Roberts, and Larson (1997) state, "Development describes the characteristic changes that an organism undergoes from its origin (usually the fertilization of the egg by sperm) to its final adult form." Thus, although the fertilized egg will take on different forms throughout its life cycle, the development of life begins at conception.
7) Environmental interaction. The entity in the womb interacts with its environment in many ways. Kicking and jumping are both examples. In addition, research has shown that the fetus can be soothed by music and can recognize the voice of its mother.

The fertilized egg, from the moment of conception, meets each of the properties that have been found to determine if an organism can be classified as living. Based on this definition, life begins at conception."
(source)

You're twisting my answer then putting words in that I haven't used. It is absolutely the ending of "life" but it isn't the ending of a person's life. I stand behind my response here.

Right. Of course.

Because there are living human beings who are not people. So, you know, you can kill them.

 

[surrender]

Someday I'm sure, given enough advancement in medicine.

But is it a person? :idunno:.

Is it a person? Are you serious? Can you not see the child's head, eyes, arms and legs, hands and feet, his/her heart?

 

[surrender]

You're twisting my answer then inserting words in a context I haven't used. It is absolutely the ending of "life" but it isn't the ending of a person's life. I stand behind my response here.

See post #344. You said you are okay with taking the chance that you might be supporting the option of taking the life of another. That's the termination of another's life. I'm not twisting anything.

 

[Silent Hunter]

Says Mr. "Cells in a puddle".

Oh, now it's a question.

Sarcasm . . . It's why I love you MC.

"According to Hickman, Roberts, and Larson (1997), any living organism will meet the following seven basic properties of life:

1) Chemical uniqueness. Living systems demonstrate a unique and complex molecular organization.
2) Complexity and hierarchical organization. Living systems demonstrate a unique and complex hierarchical organization.
3) Reproduction. Living systems can reproduce themselves.
4) Possession of a genetic program. A genetic program provides fidelity of inheritance.
5) Metabolism. Living organisms maintain themselves by obtaining nutrients from their environments.
6) Development. All organisms pass through a characteristic life cycle.
7) Environmental reaction. All animals interact with their environment.

An analysis of the fertilized egg must be made to determine if the fertilized egg and the resulting zygote, embryo, and fetus can all be classified as living organisms. Do these entities meet the properties seen in all living organisms?

1) Chemical Uniqueness. Fertilized eggs possess their own unique DNA from conception.
2) Complexity and hierarchical organization. Hickman, Roberts, and Larson (1997) explain that the most basic unit in the biological hierarchy is the cell. The cell holds the properties of living organisms, and cells can be manipulated in the laboratory and can be reproduced, whereas nonliving elements cannot. Therefore, the fertilized egg would meet this criteria, although it would be a more basic unit of the biological hierarchy.
3) Reproduction. Francis Beckwith (1994) observes that the zygote possesses two different methods of reproduction: cell reproduction and twinning. According to Beckwith (1994), twinning is "a form of asexual reproduction, which can occur after conception."
4) Possession of a genetic program. Francis Beckwith (1994) confirms that from conception, the fertilized egg has "its own unique genetic code." The 46 chromosomes present at conception provide all of the genetic information that will ever be needed.
5) Metabolism. Francis Beckwith (1994) confirms that from conception, the fertilized egg meets the requirement of metabolism.
6) Development. Hickman, Roberts, and Larson (1997) state, "Development describes the characteristic changes that an organism undergoes from its origin (usually the fertilization of the egg by sperm) to its final adult form." Thus, although the fertilized egg will take on different forms throughout its life cycle, the development of life begins at conception.
7) Environmental interaction. The entity in the womb interacts with its environment in many ways. Kicking and jumping are both examples. In addition, research has shown that the fetus can be soothed by music and can recognize the voice of its mother.

The fertilized egg, from the moment of conception, meets each of the properties that have been found to determine if an organism can be classified as living. Based on this definition, life begins at conception."
(source)[

Well, that's nice . . . it's alive. Now, what is the definition of "person"?

Right. Of course.

Of course.

Because there are living human beings who are not people. So, you know, you can kill them.

Your opinion is noted.

 

[Silent Hunter]

Is it a person? Are you serious? Can you not see the child's head, eyes, arms and legs, hands and feet, his/her heart?

It looks like a puppy to me.

 

[MaryContrary]

Your opinion is noted.

So what other living human beings do you count as non-persons?

Alate is at least honest enough to acknowledge they're persons when he argues for killing them. :nono:

 

[Silent Hunter]

See post #344. You said you are okay with taking the chance that you might be supporting the option of taking the life of another. That's the termination of another's life. I'm not twisting anything.

Ending "life" isn't the same thing as taking a person's life. Quit trying to "win" when I have explained this in detail already.

 

[Silent Hunter]

So what other living human beings do you count as non-persons?

The Irish . . . definitely the Irish . . . and Auburn fans . . . .

Alate is at least honest enough to acknowledge they're persons when he argues for killing them.

Yet you still refuse to define "person" . . . curious.

 

[surrender]

It looks like a puppy to me.

Denial.

 

[surrender]

Ending "life" isn't the same thing as taking a person's life. Quit trying to "win" when I have explained this in detail already.

You said it's the life "of another." What "other" could you possibly be referring to if not a person? A "puppy" I suppose?

 

[Silent Hunter]

Denial.

. . . a river in Africa . . . :chuckle:.

 

[Silent Hunter]

You said it's the life "of another." What "other" could you possibly be referring to if not a person? A "puppy" I suppose?

:deadhorse:

 

[MaryContrary]

So what other living human beings do you count as non-persons?

The Irish . . . definitely the Irish . . . and Auburn fans . . .

Alate is at least honest enough to acknowledge they're persons when he argues for killing them. :nono:

Yet you still refuse to define "person" . . . curious.

Really? Are you kidding me? What, are you going to insist I answer your question first? Go right ahead.

You know, you don't even have to answer the question. That you won't says it all. :idunno:

 

[Silent Hunter]

Really? Are you kidding me? What, are you going to insist I answer your question first? Go right ahead.

Well, I did ask YOU first . . . didn't I?

You don't have to answer the question. That you won't says it all.