toldailytopic: US House of Representatives pass Obama-care.
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
- Status
Ok, if we did that the liberals would have no one to steal from
Then tell me, how does killing babys ensure life. That's what I thought
LOL, why, because I don't worship at the altar of your divine conservative ideology? Your type broke the cross into a swastika long ago.
drbrumley
Well-known member
That would imply the Nazis were right wing, which is contrary to fact. Nazi's were left wing crazies. Much like yourself from what I have read from you thus far.
Memento Mori
New member
:chuckle: Oh, they'd find a way... Ever heard of Green Credits?
I do not support abortion. And what specific claim are you making about the bill in regards to abortion?
How does allowing the homeless or poor to die ensure life?
Memento Mori
New member
Hey, Godwin's Law!
How does allowing the homeless or poor to die ensure life?
where does the bill say this won't happen?
Memento Mori
New member
The reform, which will cost an estimated $940bn over 10 years, amounts to a massive change in US health provision, expanding care to 32 million more people, predominantly the poorest, and giving the country 95% coverage.
...(Also)
The 178 Republicans unanimously opposed the bill, as did some Democrats. The balance was held by a bloc of about 10 anti-abortion Democrats, led by Bart Stupak, who were worried that public funds could be used for abortions.
After Obama promised to issue an executive order to prevent cash being used in this way, other than in cases of abortion after incest or rape, Stupak told a press conference that he would support the bill. "We're well past 216," Stupak said.
The Guardian
To a number of people around the joint:
No one has the right to steal. But then you aren't being stolen from. Taxes aren't theft even if you call them that. Even if you say it with an angry shake of your fist and repeat it over and over...and if you do that you'll only make yourself look a great deal like the PETA extremist who calls eating meat murder. It isn't. When you use this sort of language you take on the appearance of the fringe fanatic. In doing that you seriously degrade your ability to engage and be listened to by anyone not of a likened mind. I think that's unfortunate...but maybe it's just a momentary anger clouding otherwise and normally reasonable minds.
That said, I think the bill is horribly flawed, does very little to actually impact (at least for the immediate future) the gross misconduct of insurance corporations and has any number of faults. The only thing worse? Doing nothing.
I think we should take a hard look at the Swedish model. They manage to provide services to all of their people and do so utilizing about 6% less of their GDP. Theirs is the second most expensive health care system, but in it the aged and disabled aren't after thoughts (thinking of your objection there, NM). The Swiss people are by and large happy with their coverage (though they still complain about costs...they should try our numbers) and receive a fairly high quality of health care without the rationing that alarms many considering an alteration of our current system.
Here's one article that does a decent job of looking at it.
No one has the right to steal. But then you aren't being stolen from. Taxes aren't theft even if you call them that. Even if you say it with an angry shake of your fist and repeat it over and over...and if you do that you'll only make yourself look a great deal like the PETA extremist who calls eating meat murder. It isn't. When you use this sort of language you take on the appearance of the fringe fanatic. In doing that you seriously degrade your ability to engage and be listened to by anyone not of a likened mind. I think that's unfortunate...but maybe it's just a momentary anger clouding otherwise and normally reasonable minds.
That said, I think the bill is horribly flawed, does very little to actually impact (at least for the immediate future) the gross misconduct of insurance corporations and has any number of faults. The only thing worse? Doing nothing.
I think we should take a hard look at the Swedish model. They manage to provide services to all of their people and do so utilizing about 6% less of their GDP. Theirs is the second most expensive health care system, but in it the aged and disabled aren't after thoughts (thinking of your objection there, NM). The Swiss people are by and large happy with their coverage (though they still complain about costs...they should try our numbers) and receive a fairly high quality of health care without the rationing that alarms many considering an alteration of our current system.
Here's one article that does a decent job of looking at it.
Oh no... it's Sozo
New member
Says who?
Butterfly
New member
According to communism, you are no longer contributing to the greater good, and therefore you must exterminate yourself. You have become a burden on society and per communist rules, you must go.
:cheers:
1)where does the government get the $940bn to pay for the reform.
2)the poorest? what makes these peole poor?
3)and the homeless? if we give homeless people-who are to lazy to get off there bums- health insurance, we might as well give goats the right to vote.
Oh no... it's Sozo
New member
Now, you're talkin'! :noway:
each:
Alate_One
Well-known member
Gee except you already were being forced to pay for other people. Now it will be cheaper, for ALL of us.
And snake? Healthcare reform was what Obama campaigned on, the people voted for him, he fulfilled his promise. This is underhanded exactly how?
Memento Mori
New member
Where do private insurance providers get money? Because it'll probably be the same place.
We do have a national poverty line. I think it's around 10k a year for an individual. A quick google search will give you the actual numbers.
:chuckle: Trust me, nobody wants to be homeless. I can't think of a single person who has decided, "You know, I could work a minimum wage job and probably maintain at least the bare minimum of living in a house but I just don't feel like it."
Also, if you work a minimum wage job (here in MO, I don't know the min wage for other states) it'll put you just over the national poverty line. Do you really think you could live on just over 10k a year and that's working everyday full time (no vacation).
Alate_One
Well-known member
Not really. The problem is we all pay for the uninsured even without this bill. They show up at the emergency room and can't be turned away. The problem is when they are treated this way its the most expensive possible treatment.
Showing up at the hospital as a train wreck also frequently doesn't save lives for long. Without preventative medicine, cancers aren't caught early so instead last ditch expensive measures must be used.
By FORCING people to buy insurance (especially people that currently game the system) you reduce costs for everyone. It's a necessary evil that would be the necessary with any health insurance reform. Otherwise people decide to take their chances, get horribly ill and the rest of us pay for it . . .much like . . .car insurance . . .
Emergency rooms are not "health care". This is why the US has such poor health outcomes (such as infant mortality) compared to other industrialized countries.
I find it rather interesting that the most vehement abortion opponents on this site are also the most opposed to viable health care/insurance reform. Why they would not care about poor women being able to afford getting prenatal care that would prevent the deaths of their children AFTER they are born is beyond me. Or maybe the only kids that count are before they are born . . . :idunno:
where DO they get their money ?
First of all,do you know a single homeless person? Second, if they don't think that,why are they still around?
no i don't. but what job pays that little anyway?
I knew it was going to pass when they said , the pro-life democrats had promised not to forsake their principles. It was "over" at that point. There is no such thing as a principled pro- life democrat. That animal does not exist. I knew they would betray their own words, for the least possible compromise they would be offered. That offer turned out to be a promise of an executive order from a man who has voted to kill babies, that survive abortions. A grown man who can not even produce his own birth certificate, is going to help, in some small way, a baby in the womb, produce one. No way!
Stupak's 16 vote pro life bloc, became 8 by Friday, and zero? on Sunday. Gutless wonders, all of them.
The socialists have won, and are partying in the streets.
In 14 short months the socialist coup, led by an illegal alien, has ceased control of the banking, auto, and health care systems, of this once great independent country .
This is now the saddest day in the history of this "once upon a time" Constitutional Republic and Christian nation.
Pearl Harbor and 9-11 were from outside this nation. This defeat was from within, and in the name of patriotism? What a shame!
Stupak's 16 vote pro life bloc, became 8 by Friday, and zero? on Sunday. Gutless wonders, all of them.
The socialists have won, and are partying in the streets.
In 14 short months the socialist coup, led by an illegal alien, has ceased control of the banking, auto, and health care systems, of this once great independent country .
This is now the saddest day in the history of this "once upon a time" Constitutional Republic and Christian nation.
Pearl Harbor and 9-11 were from outside this nation. This defeat was from within, and in the name of patriotism? What a shame!
Now, you're talkin'! :noway:
:chuckle:
I don't think this will do much to solve the healthcare problem. I like some of stuff in the bill though.
- Status