toldailytopic: The theory of evolution. Do you believe in it?

[Stripe]

CTT and TTA can both be used to make leucine. So to make leucine there is no difference to an organism's DNA whether it has CTT or TTA in the right place. But might the difference between CTT and TTA have other effects not related to the production of leucine?

 

[taikoo]

Hi

Tai does give some good stuff sometimes, imho.
But I am a little concerned at all this heat I'm getting for saying her post on Kennedy and Lincoln was very apropos on this topic of evolution.

if you review what was posted, the one eyed one said that there was an amazing similarity between ancient chinese and middle eastern concepts about a deity. i figured that is a serious so-what, and i said that you can find amazing parallels between lincoln and kennedy assassinations too. I didnt in any way say it was about evolution.

you will notice that people often wander off topic a bit, this forum does not have the sheep dogs that another forum might, in that regard.

The theory of Evolution is not competing with believing the Bible is true. Or it shouldn't be. But you think it is. lain:

Most of the world is not Christian, so this is an odd perspective.
ToE is the ToE; it has nothing to do with religion, not hindu, voodoo or anything else. It doesnt compete, it just is. Like boyle's law, or aerodynamic theories. They dont compete with the bible. Or the opera.

Astronomy doesnt compete with Christianity either. Some Christians were alarmed by it, as they are by biological sciences because they find that some of their pet ideas of how to translate the bible are falsified by science.

"Believing the bible is true" is way way oversimplifying. its a long complex book! The accuracy or the accounts varies, and things like parables are not 'true' or "false".

They used to think life came from dirty clothes and wheat grains because mice would appear. This is very similar to certain aspects of ToE which is reasoning all caught up in how things look.

"They" being who? it was a common belief, dating back at least to Roman times. someone found a way to falsify it, or maybe it would still be a common belief. The similarity you think you see to ToE is all in your head. "Reasoning all caught up in how things look"?

If your implication that its about looking at superficial meaningless similarities in appearances, that is plain wrong. if you choose to believe that, fine, but unless you can produce a specific example(s) you will have to admit its just your unfounded opinion.

And the definition of evolution is changing, incorporating everything,
to where soon even I will be able to find one definition within it that I can accept.

It is like alchemy.

Your completely unfounded opinion, and you have nothing at all to back this up.

 

[Town Heretic]

...you will notice that people often wander off topic a bit, this forum does not have the sheep dogs that another forum might, in that regard.

I don't see what that has to do with the price of tea in China.

:think:

New topic: the price of tea in China. :cheers:

Most of the world is not Christian, so this is an odd perspective.

You want odd perspectives? One in 40000 people are diagnosed with dwarfism.

New topic: If a man's reach should exceed his grasp, why aren't door knob holes higher?

ToE is the ToE; it has nothing to do with religion, not hindu, voodoo or anything else. It doesnt compete, it just is. Like boyle's law, or aerodynamic theories. They dont compete with the bible. Or the opera.

Depends on how it's being applied. I've heard it used by those who say "If evolution accounts for us then God is superfluous."

I've also heard people say that Bush Jr. was the right man for job, so you can't tell what people are going to say.

New topic: People, what are they going to say next?

Astronomy doesnt compete with Christianity either.

Ah, the zodiac then...lain:

New topic: Is it all in the stars or is it only so much gas?

"They" being who? it was a common belief, dating back at least to Roman times. someone found a way to falsify it, or maybe it would still be a common belief. The similarity you think you see to ToE is all in your head. "Reasoning all caught up in how things look"?

You know what else is all in your head? Your brain.

New topic: Is what's on your mind all in your mind?

Hiya Tai. :wave2: ..shoot...this isn't the new topic thread, is it...:mmph:

New topic: should I or shouldn't I have my eyes checked?

I suppose I'll transfer these at some point...egad.

 

[taikoo]

I don't see what that has to do with the price of tea in China.

:think:

New topic: the price of tea in China. :cheers:


You want odd perspectives? One in 40000 people are diagnosed with dwarfism.

New topic: If a man's reach should exceed his grasp, why aren't door knob holes higher?


Depends on how it's being applied. I've heard it used by those who say "If evolution accounts for us then God is superfluous."

I've also heard people say that Bush Jr. was the right man for job, so you can't tell what people are going to say.

New topic: People, what are they going to say next?


Ah, the zodiac then...lain:

New topic: Is it all in the stars or is it only so much gas?


You know what else is all in your head? Your brain.

New topic: Is what's on your mind all in your mind?

Hiya Tai. :wave2: ..shoot...this isn't the new topic thread, is it...:mmph:

New topic: should I or shouldn't I have my eyes checked?

I suppose I'll transfer these at some point...egad.

Hi TH!

I think there is a thread or two going on that would benefit from your light touch / thoughtful and good humored approach.

 

[Town Heretic]

Hi TH!

I think there is a thread or two going on that would benefit from your light touch / thoughtful and good humored approach.

So you're saying this wouldn't be one of them then...:chuckle:

Just trying to lower the blood pressure around here. Have a lovely day. :e4e: I'm off to stir up mischief.

 

[chrysostom]

Hi TH!

I think there is a thread or two going on that would benefit from your light touch / thoughtful and good humored approach.

have you found one that has benefited from your input?

 

[taikoo]

So you're saying this wouldn't be one of them then...:chuckle:

Just trying to lower the blood pressure around here. Have a lovely day. :e4e: I'm off to stir up mischief.

The little tiger is a welcome presence any thread, any time.

 

[Stripe]

:shocked:

Townie! What are you doing in an evolution thread?!?

Just trying to lower the blood pressure around here. Have a lovely day. :e4e: I'm off to stir up mischief.

Off? :squint:

 

[Stripe]

CTT and TTA can both be used to make leucine. So to make leucine there is no difference to an organism's DNA whether it has CTT or TTA in the right place. But might the difference between CTT and TTA have other effects not related to the production of leucine?

I've found a use for having TTA rather than CTT! :banana:

 

[taikoo]

Strip is almost likable on ig, i can imagine that he might say something thoughtful or pleasant.

 

[Stripe]

:mock: taipo

 

[voltaire]

Am i on ignore taikoo?

 

[voltaire]

Alateone. You insist that pleiotropy does nothing to damage your theory of God being able to use a multiple of possible sequences to produce genomes and that as a result, different organisms should have unique sequences. Your idea is that pleiotropism is exclusively a result of the multiple ways a protein can affect biological functions. Do you realize that not all of a gene sequence is copied when making proteins? Do you realize there are unused portions in the protein making process?

 

[Alate_One]

Alateone. You insist that pleiotropy does nothing to damage your theory of God being able to use a multiple of possible sequences to produce genomes and that as a result, different organisms should have unique sequences.

Either unique or identical sequences across all organisms would support independent, recent "poof" creation.

Your idea is that pleiotropism is exclusively a result of the multiple ways a protein can affect biological functions.

It's not *my idea* volt. It is the fact of what pleiotropism IS. The fact you can't grasp that, isn't my problem since you're not willing to expend any effort to understand it.

Do you realize that not all of a gene sequence is copied when making proteins? Do you realize there are unused portions in the protein making process?

I've corrected you a half dozen times on this times on this already. I've explained it and you've refused to attempt to understand what I am telling you. You have failed to make any attempt to grasp the basics of biology that underpin this whole discussion.

You are being willfully ignorant in these matters, and continue to try to discuss things you do not understand, nor have you tried to understand when confronted with facts. How about you go back and learn the biology before continuing.

Otherwise you're going to keep pulling random processes out that have nothing to do with the problem I have brought up, making yourself look the fool.

 

[voltaire]

Even before Human
Genome Project5 was
complete, we knew that
some proteins are
manufactured through
a process called
“ alternate splicing”,
where exons from
different locations in
the genome are
combined to create
many different
proteins. From the
ENCODE project,6 we
learned that alternate
splicing is so pervasive
that the definition of
the word “gene” is
currently under
debate.7 Thus, the one
gene-one enzyme
hypothesis turned out
to be a gross
oversimplification.-------this is the reason why any old arrangement of a gene sequence will not produce the same traits we see in humans and chimps. Many proteins are formed through alternative splicing and a genes that are not in exactly the correct order as they are now, will not participate in the alternative splicing and the proteins derived from alternative splicing will not form. It will look for a particular exon at a particular location on the gene sequence and wont find it there. The human and chimp likely would not survive without these proteins formed rom alternative splicing.

 

[voltaire]

It's not *my idea* volt. It is
the fact of what
pleiotropism IS. The fact
you can't grasp that, isn't
my problem since you're not
willing to expend any effort
to understand it.------I exposed you as a liar and you wont accept it. Pleiotropy is the multiple phenotopic expression of a single gene. IT IS YOU AND ONLY YOU THAT INSISTS IT THE PROTEIN . You further lie by insisting that the gene is only involved in the production of one protein and it is that protein that is responsible for pleiotropism.

 

[voltaire]

I've corrected you a half
dozen times on this times
on this already. I've
explained it and you've
refused to attempt to
understand what I am
telling you. You have failed
to make any attempt to
grasp the basics of biology
that underpin this whole
discussion.------you did not ever correct me. In order for that to be true, you would have to be speaking the truth. You lied each and every time and therefore there was no correction going on. You say i make no effort to understand the biology underpinning it. THAT IS A LIE. i make no effort to swallow your understanding of biology. I dont get a grade from you so i dont have to act like you feces dont stink like your students do.

 

[voltaire]

You are being willfully
ignorant in these matters,
and continue to try to
discuss things you do not
understand, nor have you
tried to understand when
confronted with facts. How
about you go back and learn
the biology before
continuing.---- i do try to understand and im continuing to learn biology. If i seem like im not understanding, it could be that you never logically discuss anything and always avoid inconvenient questions.

 

[Tyrathca]

you did not ever correct me. In order for that to be true, you would have to be speaking the truth.

Alate has practically been teaching you highschool and college level genetics. If that isn't "correcting you" I don't know what is.

You say i make no effort to understand the biology underpinning it. THAT IS A LIE.

Why then is your understanding of biology insufficient to even pass my old highschool biology class? Let alone anything more advanced...

 

[Alate_One]

this is the reason why any old arrangement of a gene sequence will not produce the same traits we see in humans and chimps. Many proteins are formed through alternative splicing and a genes that are not in exactly the correct order as they are now, will not participate in the alternative splicing and the proteins derived from alternative splicing will not form.

I already talked to you about alternative splicing. I explained it to you. The order of genes does not necessarily make any difference to their expression or splicing for that matter.

I exposed you as a liar and you wont accept it. Pleiotropy is the multiple phenotopic expression of a single gene. IT IS YOU AND ONLY YOU THAT INSISTS IT THE PROTEIN. You further lie by insisting that the gene is only involved in the production of one protein and it is that protein that is responsible for pleiotropism.

PHENOTYPES COME FROM PROTEINS. The phenotype is simply the appearance or function of an organism. Anyone that has taken basic biology and been exposed to genetics knows this. Stop being a moron and learn some biology. I gave you an example of pleiotropy in cystic fibrosis. It shows multiple effects from the loss of one protein. You ignored what I said.

I never said that every gene produces only one protein, but the differing DNA codons in the exons make no difference to one or the multiple proteins that are produced from alternative splicing.

If you understand how DNA works so well, here's the cDNA of a gene from rats. Tell me what the base number is where the gene starts. It should be easy for you, since you obviously know so much about how DNA works. While you're at it, how about you translate the first 10 codons or so? If you can't do it, it will be clear who the liar is here.

1 tgtcccctca atcccgtgtc gcctggcctc agagctgagc ggcgcaagct gccctgctac 61 ctctcagtgg tcacttccca ggcctgtcgc agttgggctc cggctccttt gcggagccac 121 catgtcgcag agcggggagg agaacctgca gggctcctgg gtagaactgc acttcagcaa 181 tgggaatggg agcagcgttc cagcttccgt ctctatttat aatggtgaca tggaaaaaat 241 actgctggat gcgcagcatg aatctggacg aagcagctcc aagagctctc actgtgacag 301 cccacctcgc tcccagacac cacaagatac caacagagct gaaatagaca cccacagctt 361 tggtgagaaa aacagcactc tgtctgagga agattatatt gagagaagaa gagaagttga 421 aagtatcctg aagaaaaact cagattggat atgggattgg tcaagtcggc cagaaaatgt 481 tccccccaag gagttccttt ttaaacaccc gaagcgcaca gctactctca gcatgagaaa 541 cacaagcgtt atgaagaaag ggggtatttt ctcagcagac tttctgaagg ttttccttcc 601 atctctgtta ctgtctcatc tgttagccat tggattgggg atctacattg gaaggcgtct 661 gacaacttcc actagtacct tttgatgaga cttggatctg ccttctgctc acacagtgag 721 gattcacgct gagctgtgac agctaattga agagctagca tgatccttgg gtgtctgcac 781 tatgtgtgtt tatttgtttt gtaaatgcgg tgttcctgat ttagtgagac agaatagact 841 cttaccacga cctataatta tacctatggg atcaattaat aagcatgtca gactgatgcc 901 tattgtagca tttattagta aatttctttg aatatattag atataaatag tataaataat 961 tttaatatag tagcaatagt gtatttaaaa atgatctgta attgtaatcc agttaagaca 1021 ccttacactt caaaagaatg acttaagtga tattaaaatc attaaagggt tttccccaaa 1081 ggaattctgt ggccttataa tcctattatg tagtagaaaa ttaaagggtg tgggttattt 1141 gtaaaggcct cttactttat gaattcagta gcaaggagag actaaggtta cccacaaact 1201 ccactttgca gtccccctct tcttgcttgc aggatgagga ttccagcctt gctgtccacc 1261 attaccttgg gtgggcagtt gtgttacgcc tttatctctc tgctgagtga agttctacgg 1321 tttgtactta aattttgtgt gcttttaaaa tcagctgtat tgtaagcaaa tctgtctact 1381 ttaaaagact ggaaatgaaa aaaatctttg ccaaattctt tggagaatac tggatttgca 1441 tatgaattaa tcagtatcca gcacttgtgt taaatcaggc gtcctcccag tcttctcttt 1501 tctatagcat ggctttaaag cctgcctcct tgacatgctg tatatattct attgtatttg 1561 tttcattgtc ccacacttaa ctcaggtgtg ctaaaaataa aagtaaattt taacagtcaa 1621 aaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaa a