toldailytopic: Should Christians always forgive those who've done them wrong?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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lovemeorhateme
Well-known member
Can you truly forgive someone without reconciliation?
Yes. If someone harms me I should forgive them and give it to God but that doesn't mean I have to have a relationship with the one who hurt or wronged me.
Memento Mori
New member
I'm recalling something I believe Jesus said:
Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.
But I could be wrong...
Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.
But I could be wrong...
Thunder's Muse
Well-known member
Forgiveness should be for everyone, not just Christians.
Forgiveness doesn't mean what they did was ok or that you'd let them do it again. Forgiveness is about freeing yourself from the power they have over you.
Forgiveness doesn't mean what they did was ok or that you'd let them do it again. Forgiveness is about freeing yourself from the power they have over you.
Never in a million years ... nor would expect Christians to do something I, myself, am incapable of.
Memento Mori
New member
That's unfortunate.
My father told me when I was younger that if I or anyone of my family were murdered he would bear no ill-will toward the murderer. Only forgiveness.
Honestly, that is what I strive for in my life now.
Howgreatthouart
New member
Jesus asked the Father for forgiveness for those who perseuted Him as he hung on the cross. And yet, they had not repented or sought forgiveness.
These were the soldiers performing and overseeing the execution. If Jesus had been a mere man, what would they have been guilty of?
What Christ was asking them to be forgiven was crucifying Him. Because they were unaware of just who they were crucifying. Had this been a mere man and Christ standing by looking on, do you think He would ask the Father for forgiveness for these soldiers? Doing as ordered, performing their duties, executing three men found guilty of capital crimes and sentenced to death. Forgive them for what exactly?
Luke 17:3-4
3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
Forgive as God forgives. Whenever your brother sins against you and repents, forgive them.
Colossians 3:13
13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.
How does Christ forgive?
Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Mark 1:15
15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
How can you folks not see that you completely undermine the gospel when you teach others to forgive without repentance? God does not do this!
First, don't you think there's a good reason why He does things the way He does? Don't you immediately think you're missing something important if what you do doesn't match up with what God is doing? We should not attempt to conform God to what we think is right. Rather, confirm ourselves to God.
Second, if forgiveness can and should be given without repentance...what is the point of repenting for unbelievers? Haven't you established then that unbelievers do not need to repent to be saved? How many unbelievers will stand before God and point to you as a witness that they did not need to submit to God? That it was your false testimony to contributed to their damnation? It hardly matters if that's true or not, but you can be certain that accusation will be made. And you will have to suffer it. :nono:
Not forgiving one who does not repent doesn't necessarily mean sitting around, burning in your heart with rage and hatred. It simply means not forgiving. It doesn't mean allowing that person any power over you either. It simply means not forgiving! Whatever bitterness you harbor or whatever power you allow that person over yourself has nothing to do with that question. Those things remain entirely in your power whether you forgive or not. Whether they repent or not. These are flowery, poetical, nonsensical justifications for something you know in your heart doesn't make any danged sense at all. Forgiving someone who does not repent.
Again, God does not forgive without repentance. You are not wiser than He for doing things differently. Rather, you're missing something important that He recognizes and you refuse to.
And again, you undermine the gospel completely with this teaching. You teach others that they can expect forgiveness from God without repentance. After all, they have an example from a lesser mortal doing that in God's name! Of course a perfect God will forgive perfectly and consistently. What then do they have to fear from their own sins? Nothing at all, of course. Hence hell and damnation coming as a big surprise to some people you've misled. And they'll curse you for it when it comes.
Forgive as God forgives!
Luke 17:3-4
3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
PureX
Well-known member
Always!
eameece
New member
As usual Mary Contrary, you are far from the truth. But I forgive you.
Forgiveness is not easy at all. But that does not mean it was not what Jesus taught.
Jesus says the same thing in Matthew 18:15 as he did in the Luke verse you quoted.
Then he goes on in Matthew 18:21-22 to say:
Then Peter came to him and asked, “Lord, how often should I forgive someone who sins against me? Seven times?”
“No!” Jesus replied, “seventy times seven!”
You can rebuke or correct someone for their mistakes, but you still must forgive.
Matthew 18:34-35
34 And in anger his lord handed him over to be tortured until he would pay his entire debt. 35 So my heavenly Father will also do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
The dictionary definition of forgive is to cease to feel resentment against an offender
(from
http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Bible/Forgiving.htm )
It is what we feel, our emotion, that we need to deal with and not let control us.
Repent means to turn to God. We all have that potential within us to turn to God. We need to do so for God to infuse us with the "holy spirit" so we can live according to God. If we turn to God, we forgive, because that is what God does.
Matthew 6:14-15
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
(quote)
Lesson 10: Forgive As Christ Has Forgiven You
by Eric Elder
One of the things I’ve noticed about gracious people is that they often have an incredible capacity to overlook the faults of others and focus on their strengths instead. I suppose it’s the same way that God looks at us, even if we don’t always perceive it that way.
While it might seem that gracious people could be simply unaware of just how sinful others can be, usually just the opposite is true. Gracious people, like God, often seem to understand sin and just how destructive sin can be. But just like God, they also understand something else. They understand just how powerful forgiveness can be.
As a result, when faced with a sin in someone else’s life, those who are filled with grace make a conscious decision to choose forgiveness over anger, blessing over cursing, and compassion over destruction.
The Apostle Paul understood these choices as well. In his letter to the Ephesians, he urged them to give up their thoughts of anger, rage and malice, and to extend forgiveness, grace and kindness instead. He wrote:
“ ‘In your anger do not sin’: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold... Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.” (Ephesians 4:26-27, 29-32).
Forgiveness is at the heart of grace. It’s what makes Christ Himself so gracious. The Bible says that Christ didn’t wait for us to turn from our sins before He was willing to die for us, but rather,
“While we were still sinners, Christ died for us” Romans 5:8
That’s grace. That’s forgiveness. That’s what God has done for us in Christ. And that’s what God wants us to do for others.
Being gracious isn’t about ignoring, or excusing, other people’s sin. Being gracious is about forgiving other people’s sin--because God, in Christ, has forgiven you of yours.
In Matthew 18, Jesus tells the parable of the unmerciful servant. In the story, Jesus tells about a king who forgives one of his servants of a huge debt. But when that servant goes home and demands repayment of a debt that one of his fellow men owed to him, the king had the unmerciful servant thrown into prison, saying that he wouldn’t get out until he paid back all he owed. Jesus’ ends the story with these words:
“This is how My heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart” (Matthew 18:35).
If someone has wronged you, God understands. He knows the hurt and pain that sin can cause. But He also knows how heavy it can be to carry around the burden of anger, as well as the burden of what’s been done to you. You don’t have to carry both. Let go of the anger, and let God heal the hurt.
When Jesus taught His disciples how to pray, he included these words: “Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors” (Matthew 6:12).
http://theranch.org/Lesson-10-Forgive-As-Christ-Has-Forgive.626.0.html
LKmommy
New member
What Sky said.....
Layla
New member
I'm not much one for repentance in the Christian sense, but taking the ordinary meaning of the word, I don't disagree that those who repent deserve forgiveness.
It just makes sense logically. I don't mean repent as sinners and bow to God, I simply mean feel regret and sorrow for what they have done. A person who doesn't care that they have hurt others or acted wrongly does not deserve forgiveness, where one who is truly sorry does.
It just makes sense logically. I don't mean repent as sinners and bow to God, I simply mean feel regret and sorrow for what they have done. A person who doesn't care that they have hurt others or acted wrongly does not deserve forgiveness, where one who is truly sorry does.
Why imply that I claim Jesus did not teach forgiveness? I was pretty clear, I thought, in pointing out there is a specific way we're supposed to forgive. Are you being dishonest here?
So you argue against Luke by pointing to Matthew, because Matthew omits "repent". That's your argument.
lain:What, was Luke incorrect? Lying? Do these two scriptures contradict one another, do you think?
Agreed. And if they repent, then you actually should. Don't play games. :nono:
Why didn't the lord in the story forgive the man, as you say he should? This does not support your argument. :nono:
If we're supposed to forgive as God forgives and "the lord" in the story is supposed to symbolize God, then apparently there are times when we should not forgive.
That's not the only use of the word "forgive" and you know it. Don't be dishonest. :mmph:
God forgives those who repent. He doesn't forgive everyone. Why do you insist we should?
Again, this doesn't confront the simple concept that we should forgive as God forgives. As we're plainly commanded to do.
I stopped responding to your post here. It's more of the same, ignoring the condition of repentance and arguing for unconditional forgiveness. God does not do that and nor should we.
Now, why doesn't God forgive unconditionally? Forgiving even those that do not repent? That should be the next question here, so we can understand why we should not.
This Charming Manc
Well-known member
My thoughts;
First forgiveness isn't easy it damn hard and not a wimpy option.
Its also the default position for Christians, I know some scriptures do say repent but there are plenty of others that don't.
Forgiveness before repentance often leads to repentance and restoration.
There are times when forgiveness needs to be at a distance and outside ongoing relationship but they are rare and not the Christian norm. these usually relate to an abuse of power.
The decision to forgive in a vulnerable way should never be taken by the aggressor and wrongdoer, but laid down by the forgiver from a position of choice and strength. To do otherwise serves neither party.
First forgiveness isn't easy it damn hard and not a wimpy option.
Its also the default position for Christians, I know some scriptures do say repent but there are plenty of others that don't.
Forgiveness before repentance often leads to repentance and restoration.
There are times when forgiveness needs to be at a distance and outside ongoing relationship but they are rare and not the Christian norm. these usually relate to an abuse of power.
The decision to forgive in a vulnerable way should never be taken by the aggressor and wrongdoer, but laid down by the forgiver from a position of choice and strength. To do otherwise serves neither party.
Ask Mr. Religion
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What forgiveness is not:
-circumventing the justice of God
-assuming time will heal all wounds
-letting the offender off the hook
-reconciliation
-excusing unjust behaviors
-attempting to explain the hurt away
-based on notions of fairness
-some idea of weak martyrdom
-quashing your anger
-a natural act
-denying your hurt
-becoming a doormat
-conditional
-forgetting
-a feeling
-presuming of repentance by the offender
-enablement
Yes, God commands us to forgive. Forgiveness is an act of the will, it is not some emotion.
AMR
-circumventing the justice of God
-assuming time will heal all wounds
-letting the offender off the hook
-reconciliation
-excusing unjust behaviors
-attempting to explain the hurt away
-based on notions of fairness
-some idea of weak martyrdom
-quashing your anger
-a natural act
-denying your hurt
-becoming a doormat
-conditional
-forgetting
-a feeling
-presuming of repentance by the offender
-enablement
Yes, God commands us to forgive. Forgiveness is an act of the will, it is not some emotion.
AMR
zippy2006
New member
Only if they repent. We forgive them the same as God forgave us.