toldailytopic: Should being diagnosed insane excuse capital punishment?

Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for November 29th, 2011 09:31 AM


toldailytopic: Should being diagnosed insane excuse capital punishment?






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Nathon Detroit

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An example of the topic...

Murder 77 people and get to spend the rest of your life playing basketball and have your meals prepared for you.

Norway massacre: Breivik declared insane
Psychiatrists assessing self-confessed Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik have concluded that he is suffering from paranoid schizophrenia.

They believe he was in a psychotic state both during and after the twin attacks on 22 July that led to the deaths of 77 people and injured 151.

Their report must still be reviewed by a panel of forensic psychiatrists.

Breivik will still be tried in April but it seems likely he will be placed in psychiatric care rather than prison.

source

Not only is this guy not going to be put to death, he's not even going to jail! :doh:
 
Granite

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I guess it would depend on the diagnosis. If someone has no awareness of their actions (or the consequences of their actions) and cannot make a rational or coherent decision, then I don't believe executing them is just. Institutionalizing them, yes--but I can't see the justice in killing a human being who is by definition seriously ill.

Then again, not all diagnoses of mental illness are equal, and in Breivik's case, he should hang higher than Haman.
 
Silent Hunter

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Knight said:
toldailytopic: Should being diagnosed insane excuse capital punishment?
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Yes, but locked up in an 8x5 for the rest of their life.

Put yourself in the place of the murderer. If you didn't (couldn't or can't) understand that what you did was "wrong" would you think you deserve(d) being executed.
 
Nathon Detroit

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Silent Hunter said:
Yes, but locked up in an 8x5 for the rest of their life.

Put yourself in the place of the murderer. If you didn't (couldn't or can't) understand that what you did was "wrong" would you think you deserve(d) being executed.
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Yet... you believe that they should be locked up in a small cell for the rest of their life? If they don't deserve capital punishment why would they deserve being locked up in a small cell for the rest of their life? :idunno:
 
ghost

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If a person can systematically load, aim, and shoot a gun, they know exactly what they are doing.
 
One Eyed Jack

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Silent Hunter said:
Yes, but locked up in an 8x5 for the rest of their life.

Put yourself in the place of the murderer. If you didn't (couldn't or can't) understand that what you did was "wrong" would you think you deserve(d) being executed.
Click to expand...

Probably not, but if I'm just some crazed lunatic, who's gonna care what I think about that?
 
Selaphiel

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Knight said:
Yet... you believe that they should be locked up in a small cell for the rest of their life? If they don't deserve capital punishment why would they deserve being locked up in a small cell for the rest of their life? :idunno:
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The purpose is not punishment. Death penalty in itself accomplishes nothing, it is a form of justice that is not needed in a developed society that has secure prisons. The purpose is protecting society. The reason he has to be locked up in a high security mental institution is because he is a danger to society.
Sentencing the person as a criminal assumes a few things. Criminal justice is meaningless if the subject has no control over his actions. Punishing someone for something they can not help is pointless, how would you justify such an action? It would be like punishing your becoming sick.

The question is whether Breivik is insane. I'm not convinced that a man that has planned his actions for 9 years can be held unaccountable. As another psychiatrist has pointed out, the diagnosis paranoid schizophrenic seems weird since the patient lacks the cardinal symptom of the illness, namely hallucinations.

But to answer the general question posed in this thread: Yes. Criminal justice assumes agency.
 
Coffee is King

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No, not at all. I've had a similar discussion with Eloyhim. I was diagnosed with Hebephrenic Schizophrenia at age 16. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/192361.php. It has caused me significant problems throughout my life, and I am a wreck without my medication. I've abandoned my home before to live in the park, causing my family to put up missing person fliers for me.

But through it all, I never killed anyone, never thought of killing anyone. I feel that people who do abominable actions only to blame their illness for them are merely excusing their sinister behavior.
 
Buzzword

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ghost said:
If a person can systematically load, aim, and shoot a gun, they know exactly what they are doing.
Click to expand...

Um, you know some of us can do that in our sleep, right?

Knight said:
True... that's why I provided an example with context, crime, and people involved.
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I'm curious what "psychiatric care" actually entails in Norway?

I'd want to see him (and others like him) locked up and used as guinea pigs to determine if paranoid schizophrenia (and other violence-inducing neural abnormalities) can be detected and diagnosed early, and treated properly.

I'd rather see his case used to benefit others suffering from the same disorders than simply kill him and lose that potential benefit.

Good points, Selaphiel.
Multiple psychiatrists from multiple countries should be brought in to evaluate him.

Watched A Beautiful Mind last night, so schizophrenia's kinda on my mind at the moment.

...not literally. :shut:
 
Silent Hunter

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Knight said:
Yet... you believe that they should be locked up in a small cell for the rest of their life? If they don't deserve capital punishment why would they deserve being locked up in a small cell for the rest of their life? :idunno:
Click to expand...
While anyone can "lose it" at any time, I want to isolate the people who are known to be homicidally unstable from everyone else. See also Granite's post previous.
 
Rusha

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No ... it should not. Otherwise, individuals such as Andrea Yates will be allowed the freebies of murdering their children (or others) when some shrink gives them a clean bill of *mental* health after supposed treatment.

Regardless of whether or not someone is truly ill, the threat of them causing harm or death to others should be the deciding factor of their sentencing.
 
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