toldailytopic: Should America do more to become oil independent?

[some other dude]

:idunno: Right now, it's cheaper for the oil companies to import crude (mostly from Mexico and Canada) and export refined product (gasoline, diesel, lubricating oils, plastics feedstocks) than it is to develop native sources of crude.

 

[Granite]

No, but they would change things up if they actually believed we were going after our own oil that we have tons of.

That would result in a very significant backlash. You can't threaten a global market and pursue an isolationist policy when it comes to oil.

 

[Angel4Truth]

That would result in a very significant backlash. You can't threaten a global market and pursue an isolationist policy when it comes to oil.

Such as? We were better off before 'globalization'

 

[Dena]

I'd rather we do more to become independent of oil.

Me too.

 

[Lon]

I received this email this morning, what do you guys think of it?

It is accurate. One of the many problems has been refining crude oil. It costs more to refine because it has to go through an expensive and longer process than Arab oil. There is a lot of crude oil even yet in Alaska, but we found it cheaper to refine Arab.

My venture for our best bet:


1) get off of oil as much as possible.

• Buying alternative sources helps create new business. These newer businesses aren't as tight fisted because they will use the $ to build rather than allowing big oil simply to pocket (spending rather than draining our economy). When companies get greedy, it is time they stop existing because their selfish ambitions drain all of the resources of a country and stockpile them. We've seen this time and again and it is part of our current world financial problems.

2) Legally continue to work at breaking up huge company trusts that are pocketing rather than spreading wealth.

• Illustration: If I were a dairy farmer and sold dairy products to all around me, yet refused to buy vegetables, fruit, or beef from other farmers, whatever money is in our community sits in my bank account. Such eventually leads me to lord it over the other neighbors in my community. Enterprise has always been that way, but it reveals a current need for Honest and caring men and women needed in business leadership/ownership in our country.

 

[kmoney]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for March 7th, 2012 11:06 AM

toldailytopic: Should America do more to become oil independent?

I'd be surprised if a single person says "NO" to that question. Where all the disagreement comes in is on how to do it.

I'm with the people that say we need to move toward getting off oil completely, not just off foreign oil. But I know that isn't something that can be done overnight.

 

[eameece]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for March 7th, 2012 11:06 AM

toldailytopic: Should America do more to become oil independent?

Obviously, America should be independent of oil. Oil is ruining the climate at an astounding rate. Sea levels are engulfing places like the NC outer banks already. You can see the damage. Tornadoes are the worst ever. Extreme weather is hitting everywhere. Water and food supplies are going to decrease at a time population is still increasing. Dead zones in the oceans are increasing, and the arctic ice caps are melting. Species are dying. The only reason to keep using oil is for the convenience of a few oil executives. Their convenience is not worth the cost in a ruined climate.

Not to speak of the cost of higher gas prices. Oil supply is not the reason for the high gas prices now. Republicans ignore this and cry for more drilling and pipelines, when that won't solve the problem. Oil shale and oil from Canadian strip mining is more expensive anyway. Using it does not reduce the price we pay. Oil speculators and oil companies drive up the price for the purpose of lining their already-fat pockets, using excuses like trouble in the middle east. The ONLY way to bring down gas prices, is to compete with it with electricity, solar and wind power alternatives.

Supplies are not a problem right now, but oil is running out. The price will only go up, no matter how much is drilled, while the price for green alternatives is coming down. Drilling will have to be done in more and more remote and dangerous places, as oil spills and explosions mount. Meanwhile, we have only a small proportion of our homes with solar panels on top. Why not all of them? Thermal solar power plants in the desert, windmills, battery-powered cars, and geothermal can supply the rest of our needs.

There is no excuse whatever for America and the world not to shift completely now, except for the inconvenience of a few oil and coal executives. The fact that we don't, is only due to the cynicism and backwardness of a conservative movement in this country that hates and fears any kind of change, and thinks our greedy, stupid businessmen can do no wrong and should be allowed on general free-market principles to do whatever the hell they want to screw us over.

Why conservatives in this country vote and agitate to screw themselves over, is the greatest mystery of our times. Like one noted observer said recently, our political problem in the USA is not a matter for political analysts to ponder, but for psychiatrists to study.

Dinosaur psychology could be a huge growing profession in this country!

If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

AMR

Seems to apply here. A little wisdom would not be amiss in this issue.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Obviously, America should be independent of oil. Oil is ruining the climate at an astounding rate. Sea levels are engulfing places like the NC outer banks already. You can see the damage. Tornadoes are the worst ever. Extreme weather is hitting everywhere. Water and food supplies are going to decrease at a time population is still increasing. Dead zones in the oceans are increasing, and the arctic ice caps are melting. Species are dying. The only reason to keep using oil is for the convenience of a few oil executives. Their convenience is not worth the cost in a ruined climate.

Not to speak of the cost of higher gas prices. Oil supply is not the reason for the high gas prices now. Republicans ignore this and cry for more drilling and pipelines, when that won't solve the problem. Oil shale and oil from Canadian strip mining is more expensive anyway. Using it does not reduce the price we pay. Oil speculators and oil companies drive up the price for the purpose of lining their already-fat pockets, using excuses like trouble in the middle east.

Supplies are not a problem right now, but oil is running out. The price will only go up, no matter how much is drilled, while the price for green alternatives is coming down. Drilling will have to be done in more and more remote and dangerous places, as oil spills and explosions mount. Meanwhile, we have only a small proportion of our homes with solar panels on top. Why not all of them? Thermal solar power plants in the desert, windmills, battery-powered cars, and geothermal can supply the rest of our needs.

There is no excuse whatever for America and the world not to shift completely now, except for the inconvenience of a few oil and coal executives. The fact that we don't, is only due to the cynicism and backwardness of a conservative movement in this country that hates and fears any kind of change, and thinks our greedy, stupid businessmen can do no wrong and should be allowed on general free-market principles to do whatever the hell they want to screw us over.

Why conservatives in this country vote and agitate to screw themselves over, is the greatest mystery of our times. Like one noted observer said recently, our political problem in the USA is not a matter for political analysts to ponder, but for psychiatrists to study.

Dinosaur psychology could be a huge growing profession in this country!

I forgot that extreme liberals don't like jobs and would rather Uncle Vinnie Sam take care of them instead.

Thanks for the reminder. :thumb:

 

[some other dude]

Meanwhile, we have only a small proportion of our homes with solar panels on top. Why not all of them? Thermal solar power plants in the desert, windmills, battery-powered cars, and geothermal can supply the rest of our needs.

Do you have solar panels on your roof?

Do you drive a battery powered car?

 

[Guildenstern]

Being dependent on foreign oil has caused a massive shift of wealth from higher countries into lesser developed countries that need to develop infrastructure. If you believe Satan is still in control of the world, and that this world is still his own project in the making, then I would think the drilling of American oil will never happen.

Nations are being used to progress each other in this world. Too often do people from Nation X look at people from Nation Y as enemies, but in reality they are all the same thing to a Globalist. America's economy WOULD improve, as those dollars could thus be used to develop alternative energy programs that would eventually keep the Americans the leading nation for many years.

However, this is not how it is going to work. What people living in Nation X, Y, or Z wants matters not to a Globalist. It is simply a means to an end; to turn X, Y, and Z into XYZ.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

1) get off of oil as much as possible.
Buying alternative sources helps create new business. These newer businesses aren't as tight fisted because they will use the $ to build rather than allowing big oil simply to pocket (spending rather than draining our economy). When companies get greedy, it is time they stop existing because their selfish ambitions drain all of the resources of a country and stockpile them. We've seen this time and again and it is part of our current world financial problems.

Why?

I think what we will find is oil is cheaper, more efficient, and easier on the environment than any other fuel source. Discarded batteries will pose a far greater risk long term to the environment than expended oil fuels.

Furthermore.... why not use oil since it's so cheap and available? Can't we continue to develop other energy sources in the background and have them ready for when we really need them? Why the big push to stop using oil now?

We have oil. Lets use it.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Why?

I think what we will find is oil is cheaper, more efficient, and easier on the environment than any other fuel source. Discarded batteries will pose a far greater risk long term to the environment than expended oil fuels.

Furthermore.... why not use oil since it's so cheap and available? Can't we continue to develop other energy sources in the background and have them ready for when we really need them? Why the big push to stop using oil now?

We have oil. Lets use it.

This ^

If we would have went after it during the last big oil crisis ('it will take at least 10 years to get it' naysayers) we wouldn't we be where we are right now.

 

[Bright Raven]

Yes, we definitely need to get out of the control of OPEC. It has always been a stumbling stone.

 

[rocketman]

I say drill it up, flood the market with cheap oil and let OPEC swim in theirs. Besides the obvious up side of screwing the throwbacks in the middle east there is also the matter of jobs, and a lot of them for Americans that are unemployed. Wanna pull the economy out of the current funk that it is in and bring America back off the ropes? then "Drill Baby Drill!"

 

[rocketman]

We have oil. Lets use it.

Exactly! :thumb:

 

[Alate_One]

Why?

I think what we will find is oil is cheaper, more efficient, and easier on the environment than any other fuel source. Discarded batteries will pose a far greater risk long term to the environment than expended oil fuels.

Uhh no. But then you deny climate change. I'm not seeing huge battery spills that's for sure.

Perhaps you missed the story of the hundreds of ducks that were killed by tar sands oil up in Canada. And that's only one incident that went public, Unconventional oil makes giant ponds of toxic waste which can get into water supplies.

And why would we want to discard the kind of batteries we would need for electric cars etc? It's not as if battery materials are cheap, it is more economical to recycle them.

Furthermore.... why not use oil since it's so cheap and available? Can't we continue to develop other energy sources in the background and have them ready for when we really need them? Why the big push to stop using oil now?

We have oil. Lets use it.

We have a lot more natural gas than oil. Most of the oil we have is hard to get and unconventional which means more expensive and more polluting.

 

[rocketman]

Yes, we definitely need to get out of the control of OPEC. It has always been a stumbling stone.

That is putting it mildly, yes.

 

[Demon Buster]

Over the course of the past few years, a great deal of media attention has ... A mere thirty years ago, 28% of the oil consumed in the United States was imported . ... from which the United States imports the greatest amount of oil is Canada.

 

[rexlunae]

You are wrong.

In Colorado we have some of the lowest average gas prices in the nation. Know why? We are getting some of the ND oil.

The reason it's cheap there, and ironically to a lesser extent here, is that there is a glut in the middle of the country. We have partial temporary isolation from the world market for oil. When they start pumping it out of here, which they are in the process of doing, the glut will end, and we'll see prices more in line with rest of the country and world.

Just because we drill it here doesn't mean it stays here. It's still a world market.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...prices-why-fuel-is-so-cheap-in-denver/253504/

 

[Stripe]

Oh, the poor ducks! :shocked: