I agree, you can only watch so many people fall on their butts before it starts to lose the funny.
toldailytopic: Purgatory and limbo. Does such a place exist?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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I agree, you can only watch so many people fall on their butts before it starts to lose the funny.
Cracked
New member
Purgatory? Probably not.
Limbo - no.
I believe babies (and many children) will go directly into the arms of Jesus upon dieing. They are under any sort of age of accountability - though they are carrying the curse of Adam as well (if you believe in such a thing). The sacrifice of Christ is enough for all sin, as we well know.
See 2 Samuel 12:21-23.
When Jesus tells us that we have to become like children to enter heaven, he notes that a child is humble - a specific example. However, I also think this relates to the idea that a child is unaccountable, and thus we must reach a the same state through grace.
Limbo - no.
I believe babies (and many children) will go directly into the arms of Jesus upon dieing. They are under any sort of age of accountability - though they are carrying the curse of Adam as well (if you believe in such a thing). The sacrifice of Christ is enough for all sin, as we well know.
See 2 Samuel 12:21-23.
When Jesus tells us that we have to become like children to enter heaven, he notes that a child is humble - a specific example. However, I also think this relates to the idea that a child is unaccountable, and thus we must reach a the same state through grace.
Evoken
New member
Thanks.
What did you do that AMR is not too happy with you?
Evo
I don't believe in eternal suffering
Evoken
New member
does the Church teach that?
Evoken
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what do you think the second death means?
Evoken
New member
The first death is due to the Fall and the sin with which we are all born.
The first resurrection is the justification we receive in this life.
The second resurrection is the eternal reward of the blessed.
And the second death is eternal punishment of the damned.
But this is really besides the point, you asked wether The Church teaches about eternal punishment and she does. The question is why do you reject it?
Evo
why would the Church require me to believe in a literal eternal punishment
but
not in a literal second death?
Evoken
New member
You didn't answer my question.
You know The Catholic Church believes in the eternal punishment of the damned, yet you openly reject this teaching while still claiming to be Catholic. Why?
I believe my question is more to the point
why is eternal punishment literal
and
second death not?
Evoken
New member
The second death is what the eternal punishment in the pool of fire is called, they are not two different things. Your real question is more like: "why is the second death eternal punishment in the pool of fire and not the complete annihilation or temporal punishment of the wicked?".
Why? Because quite simply it is what the Lord, in his most holy and righteous judgement, has ordained to happen to those who depart this life in a state of original or mortal sin. It is what through the sources of revelation he has communicated to us. That those at his left hand, not found in the book of life, are thrown into the everlasting fire.
This is what The Catholic Church, following the mandate of her Lord, believes and teaches. The belief in the eternal punishment of Hell is, in fact, a De Fide dogma of the faith. Meaning that it is an article to which all those professing the Catholic faith adhere to.
Evo
why do you think it is important to believe in eternal punishment
but
not a second death?
Evoken
New member
As I explained in my previous post, both are the same thing.
What I think is important doesn't matters, chrysostom, I don't set myself up as judge over what is or is not important when it comes to matters of doctrine. What matters is what is found in the sources of divine revelation which The Church proposes for our belief (such as the eternal punishment of the damned). It is to this which those calling themselves Catholics must give their assent.
Evo
they are not the same thing
you could say that the second death is eternal punishment
but
you cannot say that eternal punishment is the second death
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
All the more reason not to blindly swallow everything any given denomination teaches on a subject. The doctrine of eternal suffering should give any rational person pause for thought at the very least...
:rain:
Evoken
New member
It is not about blindly swallowing anything. It is not even about the truth or rationality of the notion of eternal suffering. The issue is that chrysostom claims to be a Catholic, yet denies a dogmatic teaching that he is well aware The Church teaches. By asking "And why not if that is what The Church teaches?", I assume that he, as the Catholic he claims he is, would give that some importance.
All I have done is ask him why does he claims to be a Catholic when he explicitly rejects Church doctrine? I would be asking him the same thing if he were denying the Real Presence, Purgatory, Original Sin or any other doctrine.
Evo
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